CBR 900RR 1993 - 1999 Honda CBR 900RR

Problems when revving :(

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  #11  
Old 05-02-2008, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

I am no expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I have had several cars that end up revving 1000k without throttle application. It has usually been been correctly diagnosed as a vacuum leak, and I think one time it was an O2 sensor. Good luck. J
 
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:56 AM
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So I did some more testing today and I discovered that when the bike becomes hot it starts blowing out the big puffs of white smoke out of the exhaust which files the whole garage not blue or black like when oil is burning. What could this be?
 
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

WHite smoke means water-specifially coolant, and possibly a head gasket failure. Thats a big jump though. You really need to start from the top here. The shudder in your slides your experiencing is something I have seen; when my carbs were out of sync. If you havn't done that yet your wasting your time. First pull th carbs and go over ever jet port and fuel avenune with them. If you never ran the bike before pulling the cabrs then who knows what the previous owner did prior to selling you the bike, you might be re-assembling them as you found them but that might be wrong. Once the carbs are checked and cleaning and synced you can move onto the fuel pump and problems with it. If the pump is not working fuel can still be pulled through it but it will run like **** because it is starving. After that its a spark test, and not just the plugs you need to makes sure that your getting spark to all cylinder and that that the coils are shooting the proper voltage. The only way to diagnose problems like this is to systematically go through each step until you've wittled it down to nothing. If the carbs are still not synced then your skipping a major diagnostic step. Good luck and keep us updated.
 
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Old 05-03-2008, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

Ok.So I have done everything U mention except for the sync cause dont have the equipment.I did measure the amount the butterflies open mechanicaly and they seem the same.If I open one by about 1mm the other are the same.Dont think that would cause white smoke though.
I even changed the oil but no traces of water in it.
Maybe your right about the gasket.
Can U test the gasket without removing the head?
 
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

Ok, well you've got most of the bases covered. The carb sync is not going to be accurate at all based on the measurments your relying on. The sync is determined by measuring vaccumn because although everything may look even and the same there are a high degree of variations from carb to carb for various reasons. When you sync them your nlooking for all the butterflies or slides to be equal to one another, your looking for all the vaccumn reading to be equal. You use a base carb which in my ride is #3 because it is not adjustable and you bring the other three carbs up the #3 vaccumn level. Its the only way to do it. Now the head gasket is not doing to be easy and not seeing any water in the oil is really not telling you anything. If you have a blown head gasket it may be leaking a very small amount of fluid that is being burned off instantly when it goes into the combustion chamber, its not like there is a huge amount of coolant flowing into the cylinders or you would notice your level dropping. I'm still not convinced your carb sync isn't a problem. Either buy a 4 guage sync setup or take it to a shop and have them look it over. Wish there was more I could tell you but if I can't really see the smoke and hear your rev issue its hard to even know where to start. What does this smoke smell like because its also possible that its unbirned fuel! Have patience and keep your head clear, take your time on each diagnostic step so you can rule each one out with certainty. A video would be really helpful if you can get one up.
 
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(


I had a bike in the past that the sync was out.It made it lose a bit of power but not what this bike is doing.
I have noticed something else on my bike.When its cold it has no power.If I try and rev it above 2000rpm it wants to die.It doesnt smoke eather.As soon as its ran for a couple of minutes I can rev it Upto about 5000rpm but no more.The smoke then starts aswell. Its also recently starting to slightly backfire when U rev it.It idles fine but at about 3000rpm it sounds like its only running on 3 cylinders.I checked with a timing light and it is firing on all 4 cylinders.The sparkplugs dont look foild eather.
I'll see what I can do about a video but will be of my celphone so not good quality.I can them mail it to U or something.
 
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

Sounds like multiple problems. Even if the carbs are out of sync, it shouldn't cause you that much problems.

First off, you have a '98, so you don't have a fuel pump. You have a vaccum diaphram that will open up, and let fuel flow from the tank to the bowls.

Intially to me, from what you've said, it sounds like you have fuel starvation issues (it got better when you forced the fuel in). Have a friend hold the tank off to the side, start the bike, then take some starting fluid, and spray it around the carb boots. If your idle goes up, your boots aren't connected correctly, or they have cracks in them.

On the white smoke: Have you check your radiator level lately? If this hasn't changed, then it's probably just condensation building up, from starting and stopping the engine, without a real chance for the engine to warm up and "burn" off all that built up water. Check your oil, does it have water in it? Check all this first, before moving any further.

GL and post up what you find.
 
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

Ok let me start from the beginning because it seems all the questions your asking I have actualy already checked...
I bought the bike as a project bike (It was put down on it's left side) but mainly just cosmetics. It was standing for quite a while (outside). The owner told me that he was driving it around in the yard the other day. When I got it I started it up but it was running very poorly like only three cylinders were firing. The problem is I never revved it for fear that the oil might be dirty. I then changed the plugs, drained the oil and cleaned the carbs. When I cleaned the carbs I didn't separate them cause that usually messes up your sync. I just took of the float bowls screwed out the jets and cleaned them with carb cleaner and compressed air.(Like I usually do when servicing a bike). I also cleaned the float valves and seats and put everything together again. I also unscrewed the pilot screws, taking notes how many turns the were out, cleaned them in the same manner as the other jets, and put them back unscrewing them 2.5 turns like they were. I did remove the diaphragm on the one carb and cleaned it but it was such a mission getting it back that I decided not to disassemble the other diaphragms (this one did look fine though). I did do a quick test to see if they were working by lifting them with my finger and letting them go. All of the slides go up if U suck on that diaphragm breather pipe. (not suggest doing this unless the gas is drained from the carbs cause U might get high). So the diaphragms seemed ok.
I reassembled everything and started the bike and thats when I started noticing all the problems. Running on 3 cylinders Power when cold. When hot slightly more power. I mentioned. I adjusted the pilet screws on the carbs to 1 turns cause the book specifies 1 turn and I even turnned them out to 3 turns but it doesn't make any difference. I gave up and left it sitting for a couple of weeks. Then over the weekend I gave it another try and thats when it suddenly started to make white smoke when it gets hot and when I noticed that it has more power when U blow into the breather pipe or the fuel hose. I couldn't have over heated it cause I never ran it hotter then about 60-70 degrees. I then took of the carbs again and checked all the stuff U guys suggested but didn't find anything. Keep in mind that I'm not a new bee and not completely ignorant when it comes to engines but this just baffles me.
I checked the coolant bottle and it's almost empty but the radiator is still full.
This is my theory. The top gasket is leaking coolant into the engine. The engine doesn't want to run when it's cold because of the coolant in mixing in the cylinder. As soon as the egine heats up most of the coolant can boil away or burn but so U have more power but since the water pressure increases it is pumping even more coolant through the gasket leak into the cylinder. When I blow through the pipe it's giving more gas to the mixture hence it can burn away more of the coolant.
To remove the gasket seems easy except that I think you have to drop the engine to do that, which is a major job. My tappet cover gasket is leaking oil so I'll have to replace it anyway but maybe without having to drop the engine. I need to find a conclusive test to see whether it is the gasket before I drop the engine and waste my time. Obviously U won't be able to set the carbs properly if the gasket is leaking.
Oh yes I forgot to mention that the spark plugs are burning very dark. Not foiled like with oil but dark like when the mixture is very rich. All 4 are the same shade but this isn't a very conclusive test since the bike haven't been driven like miles and miles running, only revved a couipoe of times in the garage. I don't want to start it many more times for fear of damaging something else Something else...the smoke smells very strange (maybe coolant) ...
 
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere.

Sounds like your on the right path. I can't think of anything immediaetly to try and test if it is thegasket, other than doing a leak downtest.

OR,with out actually having tried this, i am just brainstorming, pull the radiator cap,start the bike, and see if your gettingpulses in the fluid. Does that make sense? Iam thinking it will be tough to differentiatebetween the engine and the water pump.
 
  #20  
Old 05-06-2008, 01:35 AM
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Default RE: Problems when revving :(

What worries me is that I never really revved the bike or drove it before I serviced it the first time so I wouldn't know if it was doing this when I got it and obviously I can't take the bike shops word that sold it to me. They're just trying to cover them selves.

I thinking of something now. In past I had a car tested at a radiator shop and they could determine in some way if the car was blowing gasses into the coolant. The car in question was loosing a lot of water and in some way they determined that the gasket was blown by doing some pressure test and putting some substance in the coolant. Maybe I should check with them if they can do the same test on a bike?
 


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