as far as sharp turns i always leaned the bike and stayed on top of the bike and clutched it through the turn.

 

To slow down in a turn, pull the clutch???? If you're talking about a normal (i.e. non-parking lot turn), this is plain wrong, and potentially dangerous.
If you're talking about slow turns, What's wrong with using your brakes to slow down?? (especially your rear brakes).

Ummm.. huh? You have any idea what counter steering really is?

Z.

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: zzz11



To slow down in a turn, pull the clutch???? If you're talking about a normal (i.e. non-parking lot turn), this is plain wrong, and potentially dangerous.
If you're talking about slow turns, What's wrong with using your brakes to slow down?? (especially your rear brakes).


Ummm.. huh? You have any idea what counter steering really is?

Z.


Ok to reiterate, I just finished an advanced riding course...here's the scoop. Pulling in the clutch does what????? It removes power from the wheels which in any case will slow you down. If you're in the middle of a turn what happens when you hit your brakes, the traction you need to slow down the tires isn't there, because the traction is being used for cornering. The proper way to slow down in a turn is to slow down to a decent speed before you enter the turn.....with that once you enter the apex of the turn you apply slow steady throttle. Counter stering as describe before is leaning your bike into the turn, while keeping your body up to keep the bike from falling over, this is used in slow tight turns. You lean, when you are doing a higher speed turn...i.e over 20 miles an hour. The original question was how do you do a tight turn in a parking lot.I'm asuming since he's talking about doing slow speed circles, he's not going above 20ph. zzz11 this information I posted is not techniques I made up, it is proven skills taught at any MSF course. Feel free to check into it. The worst thing a new rider can get is bad advice from someone else, plus it creates bad riding habits. I'm not sure how long you've been riding or if you've taking riding course. Most people tend to have a friend teach them how to ride, not a professional. The proper, and safe way to stop a bike in a turn is to square the handle bars, meaning the bike is upright, and then applying both front and back brakes.

If you apply your brakes in the middle of a turn it can cause either a High Side crash, if the rear wheel lock up, locking up the front brake will cause a low side fall. Again this is not info I made up. The worst thing anyone can do for a new rider is give them bad advice that turn into bad habits which lead to potential crashes. Accidents aren't caused, we fail to mange factors properly that leads to crashes. By no means am I an expert, but I have put the time in to learn proper fundamentals to ride motorcycles.

 

Never adjust your speed with the throttle on a slow sharp turn slip the clutch.

 

No offense, but I think you were snoozing during the class.

So you're talking about using the clutch to slow down in a high speed turn??? It does NOT slow you down. It makes your bike COAST. Eventually you might slow down, but not right away. Now if you need to re-engage your clutch to maneouver your bike (which you will), you better be darn sure you match the rpm perfectly. Even then, you're bikes physics are totally messed up at this point. Pulling in the clutch in a lean during a high speed turn to "slow down" is dumb. You might be confusing it with feathering the clutch to maneouver in a slow speed (parking lot) turn.

Now for your definition of counter steering :
"Counter stering as describe before is leaning your bike into the turn, while keeping your body up to keep the bike from falling over, this is used in slow tight turns. You lean, when you are doing a higher speed turn...i.e over 20 miles an hour. "
You also mentioned (from before) :
"Basically if you're turning right turn your handle bars right"

Wrong.. wrong.
Counter-steering is turning your handle-bar in the opposite direction of the turn (PUSH right, GO right). This causes your bike to momentatily turn in one direction, forcing the bike to "drop" the other direction (thanks to centrifugal force). This allows you to lean to turn at higher speeds (it's pretty much the only way to get your bike to lean at high speeds).
It's NOT used to turn tight in parking lot speeds. And you DON'T lean the opposite direction to stop the bike from falling while counter steering.
Again, I think your confusing this with "counter balancing" the bike in tight turns (shift weight to the opposite side of the bike to prevent it from falling while leaning into a turn).

Dunno how you passed the class.

Z.

 

From what Ive learnt of this is "Too never ask on a forum for riding tips" u will get too many different ideas and end up just as confused if not more than when u first asked... Best idea, go to a rider training course, where u know that the people are teaching you are qulified to give safe riding advice....[sm=exactly.gif][sm=goodidea.gif]

 

zz, maybe we got our definitions sligtly mixed up, you are right about feathering the clutch to maintain speed in a very slow turn, but the point here is for slow figure eight the bike needs to mainatain a certain speed if you want to say upright, and that was the point I was trying to make, if you want to slow down in a normal turn releasing the throttle, or briefly pulling the clutch, is a lot better method, than applying the rear brake as some have mentioned earlier. In the middle of a turn which would you rather do, hit the brakes or fan/pull/feather the clutch. As for matching road speed with enginge rpm, during a turn a downshift would be a lot more dangerous since your tire can skip if you downshift to quick, if you pull/fan/feather the cluth the bike will slow down in a turn. I didn't mean to ride the clutch through the whole turn. Here in NJ they do refer to countersteering as how I mentioned it (turn right...steering....lean left....the counter aspect)you push the bike into the turn keeping your weight on the opposite footpeg I have heard other refer to it as counterbalancing, or whatever name you want to call it. I had these same question originally asked when I took the course a week ago. I'm assuming that since the instructor is a licensed MSF instructor, he knows a hell of a lot more than you and me and what he instructed is the way you're supposed to do it. I'm not on here to debate your tactics compared to mine. As for how I passed, I guess the instructor thought I did well enough to give me an MSF card. I'm not sure if you've even taken a course, or how long you've been riding. I would sincerley expect that if I didn't grasp the concept, then I wouldn't of finished the class. The instructors were very professional, and they were very persistent that if you didn't pass the skills test he wouldn't want anyone of us to ride on the road. The bottom line I am trying to make and a few other here have too is that anyone who wants to better their skills, they should enroll in a professional rider course...period....that's it. Taking advice from friends and amateurs can lead to giving bad advice which leads to bad habits. I also pointed out, you look through the turn which is another factor. Not trying to doubt your skills bro, no need to insult each others inputs.....Peace

 

hey man just do what feels comfortable practice makes perfect and goin in circles and onto figure 8s is a really good practice too. me personally i try to have enough speed to grab the clutch and kinda coast into a turn or be in a high gear to prevent the rear wheel from skipping either way slow tight turns ur clutch helps a hell of alot.... from being in a low gear and letting outon the clutch i layed my first bike down. so i learned quick oh and if it still freaks u out just drag ur feet..... when u get tired of buyin shoes u will start turnin better

 

Wrong Mr. Ford...this is where the classic saying comes into play, "when in doubt, gas it!" If you're starting to loose it and you feel like the bike's going to fall over, dial in some throttle and that will make the bike stand up some more...don't be afraid of the throttle, because it can save your *** sometimes!

Just about all you guys have the right concept, You shift your body weight/position to the opposite side (as far as the inside arm will allow), weight the outside peg and look where you want to go...that's pretty much all there is too it!

However, it's obvious that some of you don't have a friggin' clue...

 

Somehow or another this thread started out asking advice for 'slow speed cornering', as in a parking lot, or turning into a parking space then went to cornering at different speeds.
For the original question, as I posted earlier, counter balance yourself - leaning the opposite way while turning, and slip the clutch to maintain a crawling paced slow speed.
You also DON'T want to use the front or rear brake to maintain this 'slow crawling speed' because if you rely on that, there's a good posibility you'll stall out if you're going slow enough in the midst of a turn then drop it.