CBR 600F4 1999 - 2000 Honda CBR 600F4 Forum

2000 CBR F4 Won't Start - No Spark

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  #31  
Old 09-16-2023, 08:59 PM
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Thanks so much for helping me with this problem.
I looked for the OEM Generator Pulse Assembly Honda part 30300-MBW-610 and it is listed as unavailable. I will contact my local Honda dealer on Monday to see if they have a lead on this part.
I found a couple of aftermarket pulse generators for sale from eBay (brand Caltric) at $18.00 and another supplier Bruce&Shark for $23.00.
Will see what my Honda dealer can find for me next week.
My Clymer maintenance manual chapter six, has good directions for removing and installing the right crankcase cover.
 
  #32  
Old 09-16-2023, 10:11 PM
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I ended up buying the caltric one last year. So far I have a little over 4,000 miles on it without any issues. I will double check the ohm reading on mine to confirm. The manual is actually testing it based on voltage generation and not an ohm reading, but the value you gave seems excessively high.
 
  #33  
Old 09-18-2023, 03:36 PM
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I just wanted to follow up, I ohmed out my pickup coil so you have something to reference. It measured 491 ohms at the coil, and 491 at the ICM using the Y and Y/W wires. Hope this helps.
 
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  #34  
Old 10-01-2023, 06:15 PM
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Good News!!! The beast is alive again!! My 2000 CBR 600 F4 that had no spark is running again!
My parts finally arrived and they were installed.
New 2V 0.5W (BZX55C2V0) Zener Diode installed in the ignition switch base - resulting in the Pink Wire voltage being 9.20 volts.
New Pulse Generator / Pick-up Coil installed - resulting in the corrected resistance of 469.8 ohms. Many readings of the new coil provided consistent results of near 470 ohms.
Repair details:
Removed temporary 3V Zener diode that was giving me 8.39 volts at the pink wire and soldered in the new 2V 0.5W Zener diode that resulted in 9.20 volts at the pink wire. I tried a few other sizes of diodes to try to get to a 9.0 volt target but could not reach that. For example - 2.2 Volt diode gave me 8.40 volts at the pink wire. 2.4 Volt diode gave me 8.25 volts at the pink wire. 2.7 Volt diode gave me 7.99 volts at the pink wire.
I moved onto the pulse generator / pick-up coil replacement repair. The readings off my OEM factory installed pick-up coil was 45.68 M ohms, 44.02 M ohms and 21.84 M ohms for the three tests. This value is too high. Followed the right side cover removal steps from my Clymer manual. The cover took some effort to remove as it has never been taken off. I used a section of wood dowel to tap the underside proud tab by placing the dowel under the bike tight to the exhaust support and tapped the cover free from the left side of the bike near the kickstand.
My OEM pulse generator coil looked like it had a small crack in the face at the metal tab that pulls the position of the pulse rotor (star). I had to install a new aftermarket coil as Honda does not supply this part anymore and my local motorcycle wrecker shop did not have any used ones. The aftermarket coil I ordered was shipped from China and did not have the protective sleeves, rubber wire grommet and two wire red plastic plug. I salvaged and transferred all these items from my removed OEM coil. I de-pinned my red wire plug and connected the new coil wire up to the plug connectors so it looks factory.
When the motorcycle started at first cranking, it backfired, then started to run. At first the engine sounded rough but I figure it has not run for many weeks. Battery was being charged by the alternator while the bike was running at 14.50 volts.
After running for about 10 min. - temperature readings from the headers (near oil filter) taken by IR gun - left most #1 header 349 F, #2 header 480 F, #3 header 469 F and right most header #4 370 F.
I have not taken the bike for a ride yet as I have to install the ignition switch and put some of the bodywork back on.
Thanks for the great help you have provided. I know this thread will help many other F4 owners in the same situation.
 
  #35  
Old 10-01-2023, 11:14 PM
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Wow, awesome job on repairs!!!
 
  #36  
Old 10-02-2023, 06:28 AM
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glad to hear its finally back up and running! I was starting to wondering if/when we were going to have an update on it. the only thing I have to note about the pickup coil is that with mine, the wiring used was a little smaller gauge than factory so it didnt seal properly on the rubber grommet. I ended up having to superglue the grommet to the wires to stop oil from leaking out and spraying all over my back brake.
 
  #37  
Old 10-03-2023, 09:02 AM
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Hold the celebration. This fix is not fully complete as the engine runs but not properly. The engine will start and run but with hesitation and I can get it to idle for extended periods of time but when the throttle is turned up the engine sounds "crackly" and not normal. When snapping the throttle there are backfires and at times, fire coming out of the exhaust. I feel this has something to do with timing and likely caused by the new aftermarket pulse generator / pick-up coil that was installed.
The new pulse generator I ordered looked like the Honda OEM unit in size but I did not confirm tolerances with a vernier caliper to compare. The new pulse generator installation bracket installed within the support prongs of the right side cover perfectly and centered by design. There is no adjustment for gap or position location and looked to be equal to the Honda OEM when installed. I even opened up the round inspection cap on the right side cover when the cover was installed to confirm that there was a gap from the pulse rotor over the pick-up coil but did not use feeler gauges to obtain a measurement.
No changes had been made to the engine. Just the installation of a new pulse generator / pick-up coil so most likely that is the root-cause of the poor engine function.
Check performed -
Rechecked wiring from pulse coil - White - White/Yellow wires now Yellow - White from the new coil. Confirmed that new coil wires enter the red plastic electrical connector the same as old coil.
Actions for repair -
Try to find a factory Honda spec, made in Japan, TEC brand pulse generator coil. Honda does not supply this coil (part # 30300-MBW-610) any longer. Used, would be my only option.
Possibly try anther brand of aftermarket coil with risk.
What would happen if I switched the wire locations within the red electric plug? Could the W, Y, wires be incorrect from assembly? Any thoughts, comments on this option?
Please offer your suggestions for additional tests I should do.
I cannot ride the motorcycle because the engine operation is so delicate that it stalls often when revved up. It restarts with backfiring and hesitation but will run and remain running at idle for a long time.
Thanks
 
  #38  
Old 10-03-2023, 09:18 AM
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generally speaking, the pickup coils either work or they don't. if you are still getting the same ohm readings at the 2 locations (pickup connector and ecm connector) as you were when you first installed it, then chances are you have another problem. It might not hurt to try and switch the wires around at the new pickup, but im not convinced that will help. that round inspection cap is actually for verifying ignition timing while the engine is idling like old distributor based cars. if you have access to a timing light, connector the inductive clamp to the plug wire for either cylinder 1 or 4 and shine it into the inspection hole. the strobe should allow you to see the "F" mark on the rotor lines up with the index notch on the engine cover itself. if the mark lines up, then I would lean towards a different problem.


 

Last edited by Connella08; 10-03-2023 at 09:22 AM.
  #39  
Old 10-03-2023, 12:40 PM
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Measure gap from pickup-coil to trigger teeth with feeler gauge. There's a spec measurement somewhere. You can typically slot mounting hole to give some wiggle room for adjustments.

Also if you can check signal with oscilloscope, you can verify wires are correct orientation without disassembling anything. Here's one that was replaced and wires inserted into connector backwards. Signal was inverted with negative-slope 1st. Want it to start on positive rise. But in this case, ECU refused to fire spark at all. So not sure that's your issue. I guess it wouldn't hurt to swap them and test.
 

Last edited by dannoxyz; 10-03-2023 at 12:43 PM.
  #40  
Old 10-04-2023, 07:57 PM
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Testing updates for Oct. 4, 2023:
Ignition Timing Check by Use of Timing Gun - Using an Innova 3568+ timing light gun, the F mark on the ignition pulse generator rotor was in fact aligned with the index notch on the right crankcase cover at idle. When performing this test I recommend that the floor at the right side of the motorcycle is covered with cardboard and wear a respirator due to the oil mist that comes out of the timing hole.
Pulse generator coil gap check - With the stationary pulse generator rotor spoke directly over the pulse coil metal tab, I obtained a gap reading of 0.018" or 0.457mm using brass feeler blades.
Pulse generator pick-up coil resistance check - Reading at coil plug = 469.1 ohms. Reading at the ECM multiport connector Y, Y/W (wide white stripe) wires = 518.2 ohms. I should retake these measurements to confirm accuracy and correct pin/wire selection. I was reading the connection port Y wire at bottom of plug clip side of the connector, the second wire port of connector and the Y/W (wide white stripe) wire that is at the bottom of the outer row of connector wires.
The swap test of coil Y and Y/W wires has not been performed yet. I checked the wire colors of the OEM pulse coil to the aftermarket coil and they are coming from the same locations on the two coils.
I plan to do that test soon.
Engine ran ok idling during timing check but still has issues with ramping up throttle. Investigation continues.
 


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