CBR 600F4 1999 - 2000 Honda CBR 600F4 Forum

2000 CBR F4 Won't Start - No Spark

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  #11  
Old 09-13-2023, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TwoWheelNation
What corrective action is needed?
Test #12. Resistance of chassis-ground grn/wht wire at ECU connector = 50 m Ohms and I also got 28.6 m Ohms (reading bouncing around)
I have a Clymer manual for the 2000 Honda CBR 600 F4 that I should be able to follow out the wiring diagram for the green/white wire to the ECU.
Thank you for your support to resolve this problem.
OK, might be broken wire or disconnect plug somewhere between safety switches and ECU. Lemme look up wiring diagram and see where to test next
 
  #12  
Old 09-13-2023, 09:57 PM
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Using Fluke 87v multimeter on auto range:
Performed test #12 again - Measure resistance to chassis-ground of grn/wht wire at ECU connector and results were 11.77 M Ohms and 14.7 M Ohms. Removed the multiport connector plug from the ECU and performed the test of one probe to the open side grn/wht wire terminal and other probe to the aluminum seat support.
Checked the resistance of the pulsar (pick-up) coil (right side of engine, wires white and yellow come out of the top of side cover to a red plug that is hard to get at), results are 3.55 M Ohm min. and 4.96 M Ohm average.
 
  #13  
Old 09-13-2023, 10:12 PM
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You'll want to measure impedance of pickup coil between 2 terminals of coil connector.

May also want to get 2v Zener diode to put pink wire closer to 9v.
 
  #14  
Old 09-14-2023, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dannoxyz
if it's in neutral, then that wire would have low ohms to ground. That's how ECU knows it's in neutral or kickstand is up.

ECU is blind and can only "see" position of gears or kickstand based upon these switches working properly and transmitting their state to ECU.
according to the wiring diagram though, the grn/wht wire doesnt have anything to do with neutral but rather the clutch switch and side stand. Lg is for neutral switch and should have low ohms to ground only when in neutral. if OP is seeing low ohms to ground on Lg, then it shouldnt matter what the ohm reading is on grn/wht and should still have spark. If the OP was having the issue of starts but dies when put into gear, I would agree with your analysis but it seems like he just flat out has no spark.
 
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2023, 08:45 AM
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No spark / no combustion from engine on many start attempts. Starting process feels normal, gear setting in neutral (green light on dash), kickstand down, engine kill switch in ON position, key ON, dash lights up, headlight ON, marker lights ON, fuel pump does a quick prime - starter button pressed and starter turns over the engine normal BUT... no combustion, not a chug. I only checked for no spark with the one far right side spark plug by taking it out, connecting it to the plug coil and resting it on the side of the engine and inspected it during starting process to find no spark. I even held the plug tightly in my hand and tried ignition and felt nothing. My guess is that the other three cylinder plugs are in the same condition as I am getting no combustion.
I only was able to start the engine after forcing 9 volts DC from an external power supply to the pink wire at the ECU, first the engine backfired then started. Engine was allowed to warm up and bike was taken on a 5 mile ride with no problems then parked. The following day, the motorcycle was started normally without intervention (forced 9 volt to ECU) and ridden without warming up, for only half a mile then it died and would not start again. When it shut down, I was in first gear leaving a stop sign and it shut down drastically, like the kill switch was used. I have not had combustion since that shut down.
My research had me thinking that the ECU is holding back the ignition due to some fault. The Zener diode in the ignition switch is a problem that I was suspecting to be an issue and I was only getting 7.94 volts DC from the pink wire but believe this should be 9 volts DC. Honda's Zener diode is 3.9B2 reported to be 3.9 volt 1/2 watt. I removed and replaced it with a new 3.9 volt 1 watt 1N4730A diode and now get 7.62 volts DC at the pink wire solder point at the base of the ignition switch. I will look to order a different voltage diode so the pink wire gets closer to or at 9 volts. I ordered a quality diode kit that came with 300 of various ratings but from 3 volts and up so I need to order another kit that starts at 2 volts.
My trouble shooting will continue. Again, thanks for your input.
 
  #16  
Old 09-14-2023, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TwoWheelNation
No spark / no combustion from engine on many start attempts. Starting process feels normal, gear setting in neutral (green light on dash), kickstand down, engine kill switch in ON position, key ON, dash lights up, headlight ON, marker lights ON, fuel pump does a quick prime - starter button pressed and starter turns over the engine normal BUT... no combustion, not a chug. I only checked for no spark with the one far right side spark plug by taking it out, connecting it to the plug coil and resting it on the side of the engine and inspected it during starting process to find no spark. I even held the plug tightly in my hand and tried ignition and felt nothing. My guess is that the other three cylinder plugs are in the same condition as I am getting no combustion.
I only was able to start the engine after forcing 9 volts DC from an external power supply to the pink wire at the ECU, first the engine backfired then started. Engine was allowed to warm up and bike was taken on a 5 mile ride with no problems then parked. The following day, the motorcycle was started normally without intervention (forced 9 volt to ECU) and ridden without warming up, for only half a mile then it died and would not start again. When it shut down, I was in first gear leaving a stop sign and it shut down drastically, like the kill switch was used. I have not had combustion since that shut down.
My research had me thinking that the ECU is holding back the ignition due to some fault. The Zener diode in the ignition switch is a problem that I was suspecting to be an issue and I was only getting 7.94 volts DC from the pink wire but believe this should be 9 volts DC. Honda's Zener diode is 3.9B2 reported to be 3.9 volt 1/2 watt. I removed and replaced it with a new 3.9 volt 1 watt 1N4730A diode and now get 7.62 volts DC at the pink wire solder point at the base of the ignition switch. I will look to order a different voltage diode so the pink wire gets closer to or at 9 volts. I ordered a quality diode kit that came with 300 of various ratings but from 3 volts and up so I need to order another kit that starts at 2 volts.
My trouble shooting will continue. Again, thanks for your input.
try again to force 9vdc to the ecu and see if you get spark again. if you do, I would suspect the zener diode again.
 
  #17  
Old 09-14-2023, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Connella08
according to the wiring diagram though, the grn/wht wire doesnt have anything to do with neutral but rather the clutch switch and side stand. Lg is for neutral switch and should have low ohms to ground only when in neutral. if OP is seeing low ohms to ground on Lg, then it shouldnt matter what the ohm reading is on grn/wht and should still have spark. If the OP was having the issue of starts but dies when put into gear, I would agree with your analysis but it seems like he just flat out has no spark.
Ah yes, neutral is separate line. Clutch & sidestand on same wire in OR circuit with neutral.
 
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Old 09-14-2023, 04:07 PM
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1. Try 2v zener to get pink wire close to 9v. This is sense circuit only, so 1/8w will do even.

2. Also with key ON, kill=RUN, measure voltage at blk/wht wire to ignition-coil.

3. then measure voltage at blk/wht wire on ECU lg connector.
 
  #19  
Old 09-14-2023, 08:09 PM
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Really bizarre readings on recent ignition switch test which may be showing root cause of the no-start, no spark.
Just was setting up forcing 9 volts DC to the pink wire at the ECU to repeat a previous successful start process and performed these tests:
1. Battery voltage with everything off = 12.59 volts (Need to charge battery again.)
Tested voltage of pink wire at base of ignition switch, at solder point = 7.46 volts.
Testing voltage of pink wire at ECU connector = 7.46 volts
I set up an external power supply to force 9 volts DC into the pink wire terminal at the ECU using a test probe point to stab-in the probe to touch the terminal in the connector. I was thinking that ignition switch is suppling only 7.46 volts so my forced 9 volts would be the dominant voltage. I tried the starter several times and no combustion at all, no chug, nothing but cranking over of the engine.
This is when things get weird. For some reason the voltage at the base of ignition switch changed to a common voltage at all four test points.
4. Ignition switch 4 points - 1) At red/black wire solder point = 11.42 volts 2) At Zener Diode anode = 11.42 volts 3) At Zener Diode cathode = 11.43 volts 4) At solder of pink wire = 11.42 volts

8. Voltage on pink wire at ECU connector = now being supplied by ignition switch as 11.42 volts

My previous test #4 a day ago of ignition switch 4 points was 1) At red/black wire solder point = 11.67 volts 2) At Zener Diode anode = 7.64 volts 3) At Zener Diode cathode = 11.65 volts 4) At solder of pink wire = 7.62 volts.
No wonder the ECU is holding back spark as pink wire voltage for run condition is not being satisfied, which I believe should be near the 9 volt target. I could push out the pink wire terminal from the ECU multi-connector or from the ignition wiring connector plug (I don't want to cut any factory wires) then externally supply 9 volts DC to the pink wire terminal of the ECU and see if that will work to allow spark.
Both the Ignition Switch Assembly, Honda part 35100-MBW-672 and the Base Contact, Honda part 35101-MBW-671 are listed as both unavailable to order replacements. I may find a used one possibly if needed.
Hopefully a new 2V Zener diode soldered in place in my existing switch base will fix my no-start problem.
 
  #20  
Old 09-14-2023, 08:47 PM
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Requested test results:
2. Also with key ON, kill=RUN, measure voltage at blk/wht wire to ignition-coil.
Reading taken from plug coil plug of far right side coil connector = 11.52 volts.


3. then measure voltage at blk/wht wire on ECU lg connector.
Wire at ECU looks solid black, not blk/wht. Measurement taken from black wire at ECU = 11.53 volts.
 


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