(Need Help) 5k RPM = no power any gear (95 F3)
Bad day, read the "Noob Drop" thread in Off Topic for details. Suffice to say the end results of a highway ride was discovering there's almost no power in any gear at about 4.5k+ RPM
Observations:
Can short shift at about 3k-4k RPM with 0 problem all the way to 6th. Accelerates quickly and smoothly with no hesitation. At about 4.5k RPM shifting to any gear will cause massive hesitation. Bike will generally hold its current speed with jerks of acceleration. Beyond about 5.5k RPM the jerks of acceleration become less frequent, to the point I can open the throttle wide open and get almost nothing as a response. Bike smells like its running rich. Idles rough. I cleaned the carbs and ran 2/3rds bottle of Seafoam through it.
Fuel pump is operational (tested by jumping straight off the battery and while the bike is running). Have continuity from the fuel cutoff relay to the fuel pump (tested via voltmeter). Can't get the connector loose on the Ignition Control Module to test continuity between it and the fuel cutoff relay). But I can feel a steady pulse from the fuel pump when the bike is running in neutral. Just replaced the air filter and have all the hoses connected properly.
So where do I go now? Once I get her home that is (again, see the Noob Drop thread for details).
Observations:
Can short shift at about 3k-4k RPM with 0 problem all the way to 6th. Accelerates quickly and smoothly with no hesitation. At about 4.5k RPM shifting to any gear will cause massive hesitation. Bike will generally hold its current speed with jerks of acceleration. Beyond about 5.5k RPM the jerks of acceleration become less frequent, to the point I can open the throttle wide open and get almost nothing as a response. Bike smells like its running rich. Idles rough. I cleaned the carbs and ran 2/3rds bottle of Seafoam through it.
Fuel pump is operational (tested by jumping straight off the battery and while the bike is running). Have continuity from the fuel cutoff relay to the fuel pump (tested via voltmeter). Can't get the connector loose on the Ignition Control Module to test continuity between it and the fuel cutoff relay). But I can feel a steady pulse from the fuel pump when the bike is running in neutral. Just replaced the air filter and have all the hoses connected properly.
So where do I go now? Once I get her home that is (again, see the Noob Drop thread for details).
I'm feeling an ignition\compression problem here. Does the bike SOUND any different?
Inspect your plugs. Are any of them fouled or wet? Do they all get spark?
Feel your manifold pipes when the bike is warm (CAREFULLY!) Are any of them not as hot as the rest?
What happens when rev it in neutral?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove and inspect all 8 jets?
Inspect your plugs. Are any of them fouled or wet? Do they all get spark?
Feel your manifold pipes when the bike is warm (CAREFULLY!) Are any of them not as hot as the rest?
What happens when rev it in neutral?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove and inspect all 8 jets?
I'm feeling an ignition\compression problem here. Does the bike SOUND any different?
Inspect your plugs. Are any of them fouled or wet? Do they all get spark?
Feel your manifold pipes when the bike is warm (CAREFULLY!) Are any of them not as hot as the rest?
What happens when rev it in neutral?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove and inspect all 8 jets?
Inspect your plugs. Are any of them fouled or wet? Do they all get spark?
Feel your manifold pipes when the bike is warm (CAREFULLY!) Are any of them not as hot as the rest?
What happens when rev it in neutral?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove and inspect all 8 jets?
Talked to one of the mechanics at Philly Cycle Center. As soon as I started to describe what was happening, he said "Carbs" and ran through all the symptoms from there. Said a couple different things so when I get the bike back here, I know what I'm doing for my Labor Day weekend
Ok finished cleaning the carbs again. This time the jets are spotless.I'm still having the same issue.
What it seems like to me is something fuel related. I say this because when she's bogging I can open the throttle wide open with no response. Almost like the throttle only opened enough to get her to whatever RPM she starts bogging at. The bike is running rich but I'd imagine she'd flood out completely after a bit. But I can jerk along for 5-10 minutes easily.
Going to try jumpering the fuel cutoff relay after work. If that doesn't I'm kinda lost on ideas.
What it seems like to me is something fuel related. I say this because when she's bogging I can open the throttle wide open with no response. Almost like the throttle only opened enough to get her to whatever RPM she starts bogging at. The bike is running rich but I'd imagine she'd flood out completely after a bit. But I can jerk along for 5-10 minutes easily.
Going to try jumpering the fuel cutoff relay after work. If that doesn't I'm kinda lost on ideas.
Ok I think I figured both the stalling and the running rich out. Give me a little verification if you don't mind:
Running rich:
Checked the microfiche at RonAyers.com and my Haynes manual. Stock main jets are 135 & 138 (yes, 2 different sized jets) for the F3. 1 & 4 get 135, 2 & 3 get 138 for the 95 CBR F3 S (non-California / UK).
Hesitation at high RPM:
Fuel pump probably (with intermittent short possible). Went back and rechecked the fuel cutoff relay with the voltmeter. Bike running: 13v on black / white wire and ground. Continuity between black / blue and ground. Jumpered black & black / blue wire I get interesting results. When first done and the ignition switch turned on (but bike not running), rapid hum and beat from the fuel pump. When the bike is started, slower beat from fuel pump... until I turn off the bike. When I turn the ignition back on, nothing from the fuel pump. When I start the bike, nothing from the fuel pump.
From my understanding, at high RPM gravity fed fuel can't keep fuel in the floats fast enough. Enter the fuel pump. In my particular problem with the fuel pump malfunctioning, the bike starves for fuel until the RPMs drop and the floats can refill. Power loss.
Before I go buying a new fuel pump and jets, sound good?
Running rich:
Checked the microfiche at RonAyers.com and my Haynes manual. Stock main jets are 135 & 138 (yes, 2 different sized jets) for the F3. 1 & 4 get 135, 2 & 3 get 138 for the 95 CBR F3 S (non-California / UK).
Hesitation at high RPM:
Fuel pump probably (with intermittent short possible). Went back and rechecked the fuel cutoff relay with the voltmeter. Bike running: 13v on black / white wire and ground. Continuity between black / blue and ground. Jumpered black & black / blue wire I get interesting results. When first done and the ignition switch turned on (but bike not running), rapid hum and beat from the fuel pump. When the bike is started, slower beat from fuel pump... until I turn off the bike. When I turn the ignition back on, nothing from the fuel pump. When I start the bike, nothing from the fuel pump.
From my understanding, at high RPM gravity fed fuel can't keep fuel in the floats fast enough. Enter the fuel pump. In my particular problem with the fuel pump malfunctioning, the bike starves for fuel until the RPMs drop and the floats can refill. Power loss.
Before I go buying a new fuel pump and jets, sound good?
Ok I think I figured both the stalling and the running rich out. Give me a little verification if you don't mind:
Running rich:
Checked the microfiche at RonAyers.com and my Haynes manual. Stock main jets are 135 & 138 (yes, 2 different sized jets) for the F3. 1 & 4 get 135, 2 & 3 get 138 for the 95 CBR F3 S (non-California / UK).
Hesitation at high RPM:
Fuel pump probably (with intermittent short possible). Went back and rechecked the fuel cutoff relay with the voltmeter. Bike running: 13v on black / white wire and ground. Continuity between black / blue and ground. Jumpered black & black / blue wire I get interesting results. When first done and the ignition switch turned on (but bike not running), rapid hum and beat from the fuel pump. When the bike is started, slower beat from fuel pump... until I turn off the bike. When I turn the ignition back on, nothing from the fuel pump. When I start the bike, nothing from the fuel pump.
From my understanding, at high RPM gravity fed fuel can't keep fuel in the floats fast enough. Enter the fuel pump. In my particular problem with the fuel pump malfunctioning, the bike starves for fuel until the RPMs drop and the floats can refill. Power loss.
Before I go buying a new fuel pump and jets, sound good?
Running rich:
Checked the microfiche at RonAyers.com and my Haynes manual. Stock main jets are 135 & 138 (yes, 2 different sized jets) for the F3. 1 & 4 get 135, 2 & 3 get 138 for the 95 CBR F3 S (non-California / UK).
Hesitation at high RPM:
Fuel pump probably (with intermittent short possible). Went back and rechecked the fuel cutoff relay with the voltmeter. Bike running: 13v on black / white wire and ground. Continuity between black / blue and ground. Jumpered black & black / blue wire I get interesting results. When first done and the ignition switch turned on (but bike not running), rapid hum and beat from the fuel pump. When the bike is started, slower beat from fuel pump... until I turn off the bike. When I turn the ignition back on, nothing from the fuel pump. When I start the bike, nothing from the fuel pump.
From my understanding, at high RPM gravity fed fuel can't keep fuel in the floats fast enough. Enter the fuel pump. In my particular problem with the fuel pump malfunctioning, the bike starves for fuel until the RPMs drop and the floats can refill. Power loss.
Before I go buying a new fuel pump and jets, sound good?
Guys, there are two similar posts already about this issue. Check my other replies. Dont rush for fuel pump now. Just bypass it. I run my beat up bike without it now and she is just fine. Check for vapor lock. Open the gas tank cap and run the bike without it. Does it make any difference? Make sure there is no fuel in air lines going from the air box. Disconnect the hoses check all them and filter between them. Dry it out completely if there is any fuel/water inside.
I'm asking because while I'm street only, its Philly streets. And there are times when staying safe = opening the throttle and getting immediate response 1-6. I can short shift 1-6 at 4k rpm. But I cannot have a bike that can flake out at high rpms. The fuel pump is there for high rpm situations to my understanding.
So how does your bike with no fuel pump perform at higher rpms?
*mutter*... *growl*...
Got my hands on a working fuel pump. Got it installed and cranked the bike to test it. Was buttoning up the fairings when.... the office called. I'm one of the on-call technicians for Comcast. So at 7:30pm I got dragged away right before I could do a road test to see if this fixes the hesitation.
Good news is the fuel pump operated steadily, unlike the one it replaced. Will report back tomorrow after giving 'er a go.
Got my hands on a working fuel pump. Got it installed and cranked the bike to test it. Was buttoning up the fairings when.... the office called. I'm one of the on-call technicians for Comcast. So at 7:30pm I got dragged away right before I could do a road test to see if this fixes the hesitation.
Good news is the fuel pump operated steadily, unlike the one it replaced. Will report back tomorrow after giving 'er a go.
Yes, I'm happy!
Seems like the majority of the problem was the fuel pump. Can't really tell on streets since by the time I'm ready to kick it to 3rd, I better be downshifting to 1st to stop at the next light. But the good news is she tried to kill me thrice
The 3 times I was able to go to 3rd there was clean acceleration at 4.5k - 5k rpm. Which I wasn't expecting. Will take her on the highway later and open her up a bit. There is some bogging, but I suspect that its due to the jets being the wrong size
Seems like the majority of the problem was the fuel pump. Can't really tell on streets since by the time I'm ready to kick it to 3rd, I better be downshifting to 1st to stop at the next light. But the good news is she tried to kill me thrice

The 3 times I was able to go to 3rd there was clean acceleration at 4.5k - 5k rpm. Which I wasn't expecting. Will take her on the highway later and open her up a bit. There is some bogging, but I suspect that its due to the jets being the wrong size


