CBR 600F3 1995 - 1998 CBR 600F3 Forum

F3 tuning/lean/stutter etc

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  #21  
Old 09-24-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gpfan1
According to your dyno print out, the fueling continues to get richer as the revs climb. Something is causing more fuel to be in the airstream than it should be. The air solenoid system on the F3 is does two things, it equalizes pressure in the carb so that it doesn't force fuel out, and it minimizes this trait at low speeds by acting on the air pressure differential signal from two outer air tubes and the two inner air tubes from the ram air intake. Your bike doesn't appear to have the solenoid valve. Got to research bypassing the air solenoid for clues on this.
you're killing me. it's lean all over the place. we've been over this on the front page, too much air not enough fuel= lean. A:F ratio. AIR:FUEL. 15 parts air 1 part fuel= LEAN.


Like the picture shows (there are two types of jets in there) two of the jets have no labeling on them what so ever
the outside two have what looks like a blob and i have no idea what it is

with one up on the needle still no noticeable difference, couldn't get the front to pop up but it is also cold so i'm not sure if the rear was slipping

and i just remembered i forgot to plug that air hole in the back of the air box...
F so scratch the needle moving not working yet i need to plug that hole in the air box

Let me get back to you on if I need to adjust jets, If I do it would be extreamly helpful to borrow some and can pay you for shipping plus extra and ship them back to you since I have no idea what "130" is in there but i'm guessing it's some kind of keihin aftermarket
 

Last edited by 98Mystique2; 09-24-2013 at 09:52 PM.
  #22  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:21 PM
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Just been looking up a/f ratios on Wikipedia and Garret Turbos. Ideal stoichiometric ratio is 14.7:1. Any number less, say 13:1 is rich. So, your dyno chart shows 15:1 about 8000 rpms going down to 13:1 at 12,000 rpms.

Just trying to help you figure out the issue. Good luck.
 
  #23  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gpfan1
Just been looking up a/f ratios on Wikipedia and Garret Turbos. Ideal stoichiometric ratio is 14.7:1. Any number less, say 13:1 is rich. So, your dyno chart shows 15:1 about 8000 rpms going down to 13:1 at 12,000 rpms.

Just trying to help you figure out the issue. Good luck.
i'm also on a dyno where the ram air wouldn't be doing squat, and on top of that i'm running premium with what i'm assuming is stock timing but who knows. from what i've read and from experience if you're dyno tuning they like to see about a 13.2:1 (about where you see the line on the dyno sheet) since on the street it'll lean its self out more. that's also assuming a completely efficiant burn


it also has more oomph when you roll off the gas so again i have to assume it's lean
 

Last edited by 98Mystique2; 09-24-2013 at 10:55 PM.
  #24  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gpfan1
If your run is the red line, it shows a dip in the power band that relates to the a/f mixture going up over 15:1. That would be rich at that point. The a/f graph in red then goes lean at the top end. 14:1 is considered the optimum a/f ratio. Cruising can dip into the mid 13s for better milage. So, looks like the taper of the needle is pretty rich. But it looks as though the lean condition at the top end is due to small main jets. Maybe up one size.

Cool air is denser and that would offset the rich condition in the mid range. You pop wheelies because you are making more torque and horsepower in that area in the morning or when it is cooler. You could also drop the needle by raising the clip one groove on the needle top.
tony scott says 13:1 is the best fuel ratio and he tunes these engine to 115hp at the wheel
 
  #25  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:13 AM
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why not just take the bike to a dyno technician and have him tune your bike for you? dynojet have a list of everyone in the uk so assume they do for other countries.

your air solenoid bypass is okay but i would remove the little black filters just for the sake of flow and do your air solenoid pipes go up to your ram air system which i presume has been cut down to allow for extra flow and to allow a headstock stand.

if its running rich you will smell it i know i always could when mine ran rich.

the pipe you mention is taped off i presume that it connects under your airbox there should be a pipe from your head to the bottom of your airbox (give us a picture)

and as for an o2 sensor yes you could probably drill a hole in your pipe and weld a nut on and stick the o2 sensor in wouldnt be cost effective as o2 sensors are expensive.
 
  #26  
Old 09-25-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jackojeff
why not just take the bike to a dyno technician and have him tune your bike for you? dynojet have a list of everyone in the uk so assume they do for other countries.

your air solenoid bypass is okay but i would remove the little black filters just for the sake of flow and do your air solenoid pipes go up to your ram air system which i presume has been cut down to allow for extra flow and to allow a headstock stand.

if its running rich you will smell it i know i always could when mine ran rich.

the pipe you mention is taped off i presume that it connects under your airbox there should be a pipe from your head to the bottom of your airbox (give us a picture)

and as for an o2 sensor yes you could probably drill a hole in your pipe and weld a nut on and stick the o2 sensor in wouldnt be cost effective as o2 sensors are expensive.
no headstock stand so it hasn't been cut at all though it's only mounted by two screws (assuming it got bumped in a crash at some point or something) the bypass are attached to the ram air

the crank vent still goes to the airbox the hole that's taped is in the far back corner (as sitting on the bike)

IIRC they're only like 120 for a gauge and wideband. and if i ever get around to megasquirting my miata i'd need one anyway.

the needle getting raised a click helped a bit it's like sometimes happy and sometimes not idk how to explain it I noticed it stuttering once but it feels like there's less or no surge when rolling off. front wheel kinda lifts off the ground a tad in the top of first... still not like what it was occasionally...
 

Last edited by 98Mystique2; 09-25-2013 at 10:57 PM.
  #27  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Mystique2
no headstock stand so it hasn't been cut at all though it's only mounted by two screws (assuming it got bumped in a crash at some point or something) the bypass are attached to the ram air

the crank vent still goes to the airbox the hole that's taped is in the far back corner (as sitting on the bike)

IIRC they're only like 120 for a gauge and wideband. and if i ever get around to megasquirting my miata i'd need one anyway.

the needle getting raised a click helped a bit it's like sometimes happy and sometimes not idk how to explain it I noticed it stuttering once but it feels like there's less or no surge when rolling off. front wheel kinda lifts off the ground a tad in the top of first... still not like what it was occasionally...
take a picture of the airbox were it is taped off?

if you go the o2 sensor route then it will allow you to tune it yourself and go that route but i personally prefer leaving my bike with a dyno guy and let them set it up but there again the guy i use his race team came 4th in BSB superstock in 2010 so i trust him
 
  #28  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jackojeff
take a picture of the airbox were it is taped off?

if you go the o2 sensor route then it will allow you to tune it yourself and go that route but i personally prefer leaving my bike with a dyno guy and let them set it up but there again the guy i use his race team came 4th in BSB superstock in 2010 so i trust him
I've had a picture it's on the front page you can see the duct tape. Do have a pro dyno tune it what should I expect for price. Like I said in an earlier post I can have access to a dyno. When I asked how much he'd charge to tune it he kinda chuckeled and said he'd show me how to use it and I could spend a day dicking around with it trying to get it right, he computer tunes bikes and has a 600+ rwhp turbo drag bike


Ok so talked to a guy listed on the dynojet website. He estimated 250 to 350 but possibly more depending on what has to be done and if it works and time. He was surprised i hadn't burned a hole in my pistons yet. It was riding decently today the front wheel would come up a bit
 

Last edited by 98Mystique2; 09-26-2013 at 06:45 PM.
  #29  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Mystique2
I've had a picture it's on the front page you can see the duct tape. Do have a pro dyno tune it what should I expect for price. Like I said in an earlier post I can have access to a dyno. When I asked how much he'd charge to tune it he kinda chuckeled and said he'd show me how to use it and I could spend a day dicking around with it trying to get it right, he computer tunes bikes and has a 600+ rwhp turbo drag bike


Ok so talked to a guy listed on the dynojet website. He estimated 250 to 350 but possibly more depending on what has to be done and if it works and time. He was surprised i hadn't burned a hole in my pistons yet. It was riding decently today the front wheel would come up a bit
i dont know about price man im here in the UK and i paid £160 for my last setup thats with fuel and jets the guy i use his team was 4th in BSB superstock in 2010 so i would suggest asking the racers in your state find out who they use and then go ask them no normal guy will just say play around with it well not over here anyways.

one way to get the price down is to make sure everything comes off easily so make sure the carbs are easily removed snap off the brass tabs in the air box and make sure the air screws and jets are easy to access I.E. no screws rounded or stuck

should make the dyno time quick as possible which means less time to do the work needed a good dyno tech will do a base run and know exactly what to do to get it very close then its just small tweaks to perfection

oh and the bit that is taped off as your in america i think it was the Florida or LA editions that had to have a pair valve for emissions reason (sorry cant remember which state is really strict on emissions) so probably were there used to be a pair valve check were the headers bolt up there may be the blocking plates or maybe a previous owner bought another air box as they broke theirs who know but i know my UK model doesn't have that
 
  #30  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:48 PM
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Bought some dj 128 130 132 134 136. 42 bucks with shipping

I might end up buying a wideband for my miata and use it on this
 


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