CBR 600F2 1991 - 1994 CBR 600F2

Need some help

  #1  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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Default Need some help

I have a 1994 CBR600 F2 with 2600 miles. She's really clean and spent all of her life in a garage. I bought it a couple of years ago and I am having an issue. The bike was running great and one morning, I engaged the choke, she started right up and after about 3-5 minutes she shut down. I have not been able to re-start her. So I know the following:
1. She is getting fuel- took gas tank of and sucked on the pet **** and she flows.
2. She is getting air-
3. She is getting spark.
I have trouble shot the neutral safety switch and the coils... All data leads to the ICM. Question is, can the spark plugs get spark with a bad ICM? I just hooked up a test light to the outer spark plug wires and they fired. Not very bright spark though. Next, where can one of these be purchased? Do the dealers still sell them? My dealer is closed right now. I found a used one on Ebay...

Is there any other cause for this?

Thanks for the help. I am trying to sell the bike since I don't use it and a guy was going to look at it this weekend. He is interested but wants it running and I don't blame him.

 
  #2  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 350xfire View Post
1. She is getting fuel- took gas tank of and sucked on the pet **** and she flows.
2. She is getting air-
3. She is getting spark.
I have trouble shot the neutral safety switch and the coils... All data leads to the ICM. Question is, can the spark plugs get spark with a bad ICM? I just hooked up a test light to the outer spark plug wires and they fired. Not very bright spark though. Next, where can one of these be purchased? Do the dealers still sell them? My dealer is closed right now. I found a used one on Ebay...
Ok, I've got a couple idea/suggestions/comments
1. Phrasing. I'm dying here. What you do in the privacy of your own garage is up to you. lol. Ok, seriously. I've see the petcock diaphragms get pin holes in them so they won't fully open during idle, but they see to work fine when you suck on them. Best way to double check this is to remove the tank and just hook up a direct feed to the carbs and try to start the bike. I usually use a pop bottle with a hose and hang it about the bike.
2. It's unlikely the ICM/ECM went bad while just idling. It's very rare for them to ever go bad. I wouldn't go throwing money at that yet, unless you can get one real cheap. See if you can borrow one from someone just to test. Also if you are getting any kind of spark, it's likely the ECM is working.
3. It's a lot more likely this problem is related to something rubber or wiring. Remember it's a 20+yr old bike. Most of my problems have been from rubber bits getting old.
4. Did you check the wires to the pickup on the pulse rotor, on the right side in front of the clutch? Getting spark at the wrong time will prevent it from running.
5. F2's are also known to have wires come loose in the kill switch housing. Preventing the bike from running regardless of switch position. But that would also prevent spark, so it's a long shot.
6. If you let it idle for 3-5 minutes with the choke on, you might have just flooded it. Turn the choke off, hold the throttle wide open and crank it a few times.
7. There could be a lot of other things too. But I'm guessing it's something simple since the bike was running. Give us more information if you can.
 
  #3  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil314 View Post
Ok, I've got a couple idea/suggestions/comments
1. Phrasing. I'm dying here. What you do in the privacy of your own garage is up to you. lol. Ok, seriously. I've see the petcock diaphragms get pin holes in them so they won't fully open during idle, but they see to work fine when you suck on them. Best way to double check this is to remove the tank and just hook up a direct feed to the carbs and try to start the bike. I usually use a pop bottle with a hose and hang it about the bike.
2. It's unlikely the ICM/ECM went bad while just idling. It's very rare for them to ever go bad. I wouldn't go throwing money at that yet, unless you can get one real cheap. See if you can borrow one from someone just to test. Also if you are getting any kind of spark, it's likely the ECM is working.
3. It's a lot more likely this problem is related to something rubber or wiring. Remember it's a 20+yr old bike. Most of my problems have been from rubber bits getting old.
4. Did you check the wires to the pickup on the pulse rotor, on the right side in front of the clutch? Getting spark at the wrong time will prevent it from running.
5. F2's are also known to have wires come loose in the kill switch housing. Preventing the bike from running regardless of switch position. But that would also prevent spark, so it's a long shot.
6. If you let it idle for 3-5 minutes with the choke on, you might have just flooded it. Turn the choke off, hold the throttle wide open and crank it a few times.
7. There could be a lot of other things too. But I'm guessing it's something simple since the bike was running. Give us more information if you can.

I knew #1 would get me in trouble for sure! lol. The petcock is actually new so I really don't think it's the issue.
I did find an aftermarket ECM on EBay for $55 so I ordered it.
Do I have to disassemble the switch at the handle bar or is there a wiring harness I can test remotely?
I have tried to start it with the throttle closed, opened, choke on and off and I can hear it "burp" every once in a while but it takes a long time for it to make the noise.

Oh, I did replace all of the 1/8" hoses and removed all of the emissions canister stuff. Is it possible that it has something to do with this? The bike ran great after the removal many months ago though.
Thanks again!
 

Last edited by 350xfire; 12-10-2018 at 09:02 PM.
  #4  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:00 PM
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OK, I just tested the black/white terminal at the ICM by grounding it and cycled the run/stop switch. The switch works as intended. Voltage comes on and off as the switch is placed in run and stop, respectively.
The pulse generator wires yellow and yellow/white tested at 470 ohms, which is within what the factory manual recommends.
I also checked all the fuses I could find. The ones under the handle bar covered by the small panel and one under the fuel tank. All tested good.
 

Last edited by 350xfire; 12-10-2018 at 09:04 PM.
  #5  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:55 PM
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Did you check the battery? If she has spark, then it's probably not the ICM...

Also drain the carbs, replace the fuel filter, and try with fresh gas

My money's on battery
 
  #6  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:49 AM
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1. She is getting fuel-
2. She is getting air-
3. She is getting spark.
If all three of the above statements are correct then she would live..
 
  #7  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 350xfire View Post
OK, I just tested the black/white terminal at the ICM by grounding it and cycled the run/stop switch. The switch works as intended. Voltage comes on and off as the switch is placed in run and stop, respectively.
The pulse generator wires yellow and yellow/white tested at 470 ohms, which is within what the factory manual recommends.
I also checked all the fuses I could find. The ones under the handle bar covered by the small panel and one under the fuel tank. All tested good.
When trouble shooting stuff, there is no substitute for take stuff apart. You may think the switch is working, but many problems intermittent on older stuff. It may look fine, but wiggle the wires inside the switch and you may find something. Had an old furnace with a broken solder joint. When the tech tested it, the pressure of pushing the meter against it, made it connect, so it tested good. Then a short while later, the furnace would suddenly stop as the joint heated up. You may also find something you weren't even looking for.

Anyway, it sounds like you know what you are doing. And you are checking the right stuff. Just be sure to check the simple and obvious stuff first before looking for complicated/expensive explanations.

Also check the battery voltage with the bike switched on. I've seen voltage reg/rec short on failure and prevent a bike from running.
 
  #8  
Old 12-12-2018, 06:10 PM
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Battery is charging and engine spins fast when starting so I don't think the battery is the issue.
 
  #9  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:02 AM
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The crank can be deceiving. These are small engines after all, so it doesn't take a lot of amps to get a healthy crank. The issue is when the battery has lost it's capacity to hold voltage. It might show voltage after charging, but it's an illusion, and will drop back below 10V as soon as you turn the key

It's especially common on old style 'maintenance' batteries that need to be topped up with distilled water periodically, and spend a lot of time sitting. Once the voltage drops below 9V or so, it'll undergo a chemical reaction and those lead-acid cells will degrade. Once that happens, there's no coming back. The easy test is to disconnect the battery and use a known good power source (booster pack or healthy spare) to check to see if you get a different result. Another dead giveaway is if the battery gets hot while charging

I only suggest it cause of the bikes I own, it is the most common reason for a no-start, especially on a bike that was running fine previously. You also describe a weak spark, and have ruled out fuel and air, so that really narrows it down to electrical, and most of that stuff won't fail spontaneously on a low mileage bike

Good luck
 
  #10  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:51 AM
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I read through the posts and it doesn't look like anyone's brought up carb cleaning.

I've had batteries test okay with a bad battery but I've never had a bad battery turn the engine over. In any case I test for a bad battery buy using jumper cabkes on the battery from my truck (truck not running).

To test for spark, I pull out one of the plugs I can get to, lay it on the engine to ground it and turn the engine over. Obviously if there's no spark, your problem is there. It is possible for a bad plug to spark outside of the engine but not in but there's virtually no chance of all four plugs behaving that way. Even so, new plugs would fix this problem. Make sure that any plugs, new or old are properly gapped.

To test for gas I shoot starting fluid into the carbs while turning the engine over. If the engine runs, or even fires once, your problem is fuel. Because modern gas is garbage your carbs can get plugged up in a matter of months if the bike isn't run. This would account for positive flow through the petcock and into the float bowls.

My guess is dirty carbs.
 

Last edited by Commander_Chaos; 12-15-2018 at 08:53 AM.

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