someone was talkin out their *** with contradictary remarks -huh sd?lol!

 

Yeah it sure appears that way.

The PAIR system seems to be anotherstumbling block for Ty. I was considering reconnecting my AFR meter and running some back to back tests with and without the PAIR enabled to show that air is indeed introduced into the exhaust steam when the engine is under load. Afterour "discussion" of the intake flap operationI have the distinct feeling that any testing I did, regardless of the results, would do nothing toresolve the issue and wouldbe a complete waste of time.

 

This entire discussion started in the other thread because I was simply trying to say that the change in air temperature between the two positions was the cause for the increase in measured horsepower, as opposed to the increase in airflow. The flap will never close with the bike revved neutral or without load was all I was saying above, making it difficult to view or measure the operation of the flapper. Let's agree to disagree on the loaded operation of the valve, since nobody here has it hooked up anyway, we can probably agree on the fact that it benefits the user to bypass the system. I think we can probably agree that it would be possible to exploit the benefits by a dyno operator adjusting the starting RPM of the pull and what RPM range is held prior to the run as long as they know the operation of the valve.

I'm really disappointed that you have to chase me down in a thread about running rich and start badmouthing me. If you still wanted to talk, you could have just PM'd me or something. I gave up on the other thread because we both have a different understanding of the operation of the gold diaphragm that is actually connected to the flapper. I think it has restricted movement and you don't. I don't think that it is really that big of a deal since we both still agree that the system is better off disabled.

I assume that by the way that you talk, you are at least somewhat familiar with engines, and would agree that running rich is the cause for this guy's problem. I am just trying to explain to him WHY it causes a popping noise. I don't think that deserved to be so aggressively attacked. Maybe if I am explaining something in a way that it isn't being read right, you could help clarify that for the guy that asked the question, instead of just passing along your disapproval of my trying to help in general. I'm sure that it does not benefit the guy to know that you think I am an idiot, but he probably would like to know why he is running rich and what he can do about it. We all know the bikes run rich. He just put a full exhaust on. Of course he is going to hear popping.

I'm not sure if you or somebody else asked, but yes, afterfire is a real word, look it up. We like to differentiate between combustion that travels BACK out the intake valves and combustion that occurs AFTER the exhaust ports have opened. The extreme lean condition that sweetdeal referred to as being able to cause a popping, would in fact be a MISfire, and the operator would have more severe problems than a popping noise. I don't see why that needed to be attacked either.

Fuel computers are slow to react because the input signals are often late to arrive, not because the processor is slow. I get that you know how to convert Mhz into time, but the TPS and vacuum sensor can't relay a signal any faster. It's not the fault of the controller that it takes so long to get the signals and convert them into a fuel cycle. I was simply trying to put into perspective how fast the engine is spinning at those RPMs. 10 milliseconds is faster than what would be reasonably expected out of a stock computer system, but it makes the math easy so that he can see just how fast those injectors are firing. I'm just trying to give the guy a visual to go with the explanation, and the last fuel controller spec sheet I read was for a SAFC2 and it said 8 milliseconds. We all know that letting off the throttle creates a temporary rich condition, I'm just trying to tell him WHY. If you have a different view, maybe you could share that with him so as to help him to understand how it works. Again, I'm sure that you calling me names is not helping.

I also do not feel as though you needed to call out my temperature estimates. For a dyno mounted bike, I think the

 

Ty,

This is very simple. It doesn't take a 1000 word reply to straighten this out. If you're so offended by my accusations that you make stuff up, then prove me wrong. You've had countless opportunities to clear your name, but have been unable or unwilling to do so. Why is that? There are only three possibilities in regards to this theory that whacking open the throttle will open the flapper when riding at less than 5500 RPM.

A. You made it up.
B. You're relaying information from someone else.
C. You've personally verified it.

Would it be so bad to have to admit that you simply made an assumption that wasn't true? Justbe straight withus and then we can talk about apologies and getting along better.

 

btw- input signals from 02 sensors are 7 times a second- not too slow i'd have to say[talking in regards to your comments on gasoline engines receiving input slow]

 

SD - my background is in high-power imports. In multimeter testing, it would seem as though the solenoid loses voltage on a WOT input to the ECU. If this system works like the other Hondas, the gold diaphragm houses a venturi that limits the speed at which the vacuum pressure can affect the flapto move, preventing a sudden change in airflow tracks. The black canister holds a volume of vacuum air that can be used to hold the flap closed in the event that no vacuum pressure is available when the solenoid energizes. The solenoidallows the vacuum to pass through andpull on the flap by way of the stick coming out of the diapragm and connected to the flap. If that is incorrect, please straighten out the operation of the system and clarify the function of each component.

openclass -That would be more than 140 milliseconds. I agree with you and that's why I said it was slow. Somebody else was claiming that the fuel response is instant. I mean slow in relation to processor capability, not slow like a turtle, lol.

On a side note, I believe that is why Dynojet recommends the O2sensor eliminator kit when using a PC3.

 

Was thismultimeter testingdone on a CBR1000 or a car?

 

i had thought we are talking cbr1000rr's here-cars to bikes is like apples to oranges[]

 

Measurements were taken from the bike under simulated conditions. The results were not scrutinized at the time and were consistent with those taken from H22 and H23 VTEC operation so were accepted to be the same. Since there is no benefit to manipulating the flap to any position other than full open in the bike, complete system operation was assumed to be the same and it was disabled without further review. In the cars, the system can prove to be more beneficial in an altered but still functional state. We have spent considerably more time with the car system, as such.

 

OK so the straight answer here is thatyou found a similarity between the VTEC and the CBR1000RR andyou just assumed they worked the same. Was that so hard to say?

Now that that's out of the way, we can all agree thatthe flap on the CBR1000RR won't open unless thetransmission is in neutral or the engine is at 5500+ RPM. Throttle position has no effect on when the damper opens and closes.