One day I'll take a track day riding course, but for now, I ride the way I think is fast...

When I'm touring, I lean into the corners a bit to start the turn but essentially my spine stays in line with the bike. It works fine for normal curves at normal speeds.

When I'm being spirited, I slip my backside down the side of the seat sometimes onto my heel just before I start to turn, lean forward and look past the side of the windscreen through the corner. I find the bike feels like it's staying essentially upright but I still go round the corner. As I roll on the throttle, my bodyweight isn't enough to get around the corner so the bike starts to lean in as well.

When I'm being really confident, I find that I get around 50kph recommended corners at well over 120kph and when the corners try to suprise me and close up, I feel safe and in control even when I feel like the pegs or exhaust is about to scrape the road.

I try to keep about a metre my side of the centreline rather than sweep into racing lines.

Am I kidding myself, or do I have better control going to corners hanging off the side of the bike.

None of the people I ride regularly with are highly skilled riders and they poke fun at me the way I sometimes move all over the bike through the twisties. I sort of think I'm right because I go slow on the straights waiting for them to catch up after I flash through the straights, but it's also true that they don't have the confidence that I have in corners...

Essentially, the question is lean in line with the bike or try to keep the bike upright and let it follow me over if it needs too?

 

Basically, you can lean as much as you want independently of if you are sitting straight up or if you hang out. By hanging out you reduce the bikes lean angle some, and can therefore run with somewhat higher corner speed. The key thing in your case I believe is to practice counter steering and throttle control in curves. E.g. you can be sitting straight and lay the bike on its right side, if you want to lean that much, just by pushing the right handle forward. The more throttle you apply, and the bike tends to go wide, the more pushing force you have to apply on the inner handle.

Another issue is that you can theoretically lean as much in 150 km/h as in 50 km/h. The force on the tyres (grip margin) will be the same as long as the bike does not have to overcome wind resistance. It’s the brain that makes most people go slower in high speed corners, more than a bike issue. The margin for errors in line choice will of course be reduced in higher speed where things happen much faster.

I don't know if that answers your questions but those are the very basics.

 

Hanging of the side of the bike is good as far as weight position goes. But unless you have the leg, arm & abs strength to go with it, it will make things worse.

You will find that unless you can go from hanging off the bike to the centre again SMOOTHLY you will more than likely get a wobble happening.

Also sportsbike seats are nice & flat which allows you to slide ya bum around easily. But the CBR uses a more touring style seat which tends to lock you in position.

You just need to find what works for you.

I do get off the bike when coming into a very tight corner. But at high speed its not the best idea. What a GP rider. In the slower corners they hand right off but in the faster corners they are more upright.

 

I too would like to do a track day, not sure i'd want it to be on my bike cos i'd probably fall off.

I read this several times and remain puzzled;

Is what you are talking "counter intuitive" ?

Maybe there is a video somewhere which shows what you are talking about.

I'm concentrating on riding "smooth" through corners, which to me means you got everything set up right - speed, gear, approach etc.

I am in awe of MotoGP and Superbike riders, going into corners sideways et al

 

I got the impression that Triangle meant that the body weight and the body position helped to lean the bike, I might have misunderstood him though. What I tried to say was that making the bike going around a curve is not the body position; it is the bike leaning, which is initiated by counter steering and nothing else. If you want to turn right, push the right handle forward and vice versa. That is the only way to turn a bike even if many person believes they actually hang down the bike to turn. What they really are doing is pushing the inner handle forward when they shift their body position, even though they can be unaware of it. I've met several bikers that have driven for decades that still believe that the bike will turn right if you pull the right handle towards you, which is wrong. It's good to know that any 2-weller turns the opposite way if you have to make a quick turn like passing on the correct side of a hinder. If one tries to turn by “car steering�, or like the bike is turned at parking speeds, the bike will go the wrong direction. If one try to hang on side to make it turn, the turn will be very slow compared to push the handle forward on the side which you want to turn to. The only way to flip/flop a bike very fast on e.g. twisty tracks or in chicanes is also to counter steer.

 

R1000 is correct. Leaning off the bike allows you to shift the center a gravity a bit so your lean angle can be less, giving you a bit higher margin of error. However you can lean off the bike at a right angle it will still go straight.

Push right bar to go right, push the left bar to go left. Proficent motorcycling is a great book to start out with.

For any one that doesn't believe, take a look http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

 

Holy Crap!

Thankyou very much.

 

Well aint life amazing. I've been back on bikes for about 6 years (usual story, i'm 49, marriage break up, get back on bikes) and of course I had bikes when I was younger. I've been through CB750C, XJ900F, GTR1000(Concours), CB900C and now CBR1000F. I even worked as a motorcycle courier in London, did around 44,000 miles in 1 year. I've zoomed alomg twisty country roads like all the rest. Except I never knew about counter steering. On the way to work this morning I had a play around and was amazed that the things I had been doing naturally as it were. I even laughed aloud inside my crash helmet.

So once again, thanks for this thread everybody.

 

I ignored the point of countersteering because it just seems to happen and I accept it and understand it and wasn't intending to discuss it.

I was just interested in the lean "with" the bike or jump around (smoothly of course) concepts, and I've got my answer. AWSOME!

From this thread so far, the new thing I've learnt is the last line in trips post... "I do get off the bike when coming into a very tight corner. But at high speed its not the best idea. Watch a GP rider. In the slower corners they hang right off but in the faster corners they are more upright".

Now that I think back, there's a road that goes to the local port that is built to allow fully laden B doubles to take the curves without needing to slow down. When I do them on the bike, it's well over 200 and feels much more stable to stay in line with the bike.

It's nice to have a reason behind a feeling.

My yr 11 physics teacher explained the concept of counter steer with a spoon. A neighbour who sails explained why the more out of balance a sailing ship gets, the more it tries to right itself. It's genius!

 

Wait until you see the look on peoples face when you tell them that the faster you go around a corner the harder it is to lean as the forces are trying to stand the bike up.

Thats why in a right hand corner I'll brace the bike with the left knee into the tank.

It also why racers have great forearms and calfs.