hand position questions
#21
07-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Senior Member & tensioner mod inventor ROTM WINNER FEB 2013
Yes but I still think he should use 2 fingers on the brake. The index finger is too close to the fulcrum point to provide effective braking without a lot more effort than index + middle finger. 2 fingers also provide a much more secure grip on a potentially life saving control.
As for braking practice, it doesn't hurt to do it during normal riding. Often I'll hold off longer than normal when approaching a light / stop sign before applying the brakes. I only do this on roads I know extremely well with no traffic anywhere near me. Basically I practice doing 30mph - 0mph on an almost daily basis.
And another important thing about practicing braking: you should practice it at the speeds you travel. I think it was in Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques where he said if you ride at 120 mph you better be able to stop from 120 mph. Of course that's obviously extreme since people should only be doing 120 mph at the track (and who stops on the track?
). But it is true that you need to know how to stop from 35 mph and 55 mph.
Not just the 15 mph - 20 mph the MSF makes people stop from to pass the test.
As for braking practice, it doesn't hurt to do it during normal riding. Often I'll hold off longer than normal when approaching a light / stop sign before applying the brakes. I only do this on roads I know extremely well with no traffic anywhere near me. Basically I practice doing 30mph - 0mph on an almost daily basis.
And another important thing about practicing braking: you should practice it at the speeds you travel. I think it was in Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques where he said if you ride at 120 mph you better be able to stop from 120 mph. Of course that's obviously extreme since people should only be doing 120 mph at the track (and who stops on the track?
). But it is true that you need to know how to stop from 35 mph and 55 mph.Not just the 15 mph - 20 mph the MSF makes people stop from to pass the test.
I may have to bring the motorway to a standstill tomorrow morning as I practice an emergency pull at 120. Haven't done that for a while.
I ride all fingers on the levers by the way, unless there's no immediate danger then it's a loose grip on the bars. Alternating between the two on a long journey helps keep the hands supple and the muscles slightly loose.
I also use the engine braking more than the brakes themselves when on the move. Thinking ahead reduces the need to brake too quickly but you always have to be prepared.
Nice info here. Well done guys!
front v back brake
#23
07-04-2011, 05:21 PM
Retired Super Moderator - At large E=MC2
#24
07-06-2011, 01:24 PM
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Not sure where you guys gather your info but the only time I've seen a front tire lock up is if your suspension is shot and bottoms out. Its VERY hard to lock up the tires on a bike with decent suspension, and it is harder than you think to flip the bike unless you try on purpose with front heavy positioning.
#25
07-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Not sure where you guys gather your info but the only time I've seen a front tire lock up is if your suspension is shot and bottoms out. Its VERY hard to lock up the tires on a bike with decent suspension, and it is harder than you think to flip the bike unless you try on purpose with front heavy positioning.
#26
07-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Reason I quoted you is because you didn't specifically point out to f4iguy to get another finger on that brake lever ;-)
#27
07-06-2011, 04:09 PM
Retired Super Moderator - At large E=MC2
Just because you lock the front wheel doesn't mean it will flip end over end. Yes I've seen all of the stunters and victory stands, but for us regular folk...
Most likely result of locking the front wheel is it immediately start to slide out from under you. That's not good BUT being able to grab the brakes until just BEFORE that point, gives you the maximum stopping power. I've never owned a bike that wouldn't do that for me using 2 fingers. Of course, that does require braided lines, twin discs and good maintenance but easily acheived with modern equipment.
Ern
Most likely result of locking the front wheel is it immediately start to slide out from under you. That's not good BUT being able to grab the brakes until just BEFORE that point, gives you the maximum stopping power. I've never owned a bike that wouldn't do that for me using 2 fingers. Of course, that does require braided lines, twin discs and good maintenance but easily acheived with modern equipment.
Ern
#28
07-07-2011, 01:19 PM
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I've seen racers brake so hard that the front rotors glow and the rear end is all over the place. I also know from personal experience. I used to be an aggressive little **** on the road, thought I was fast too. Got to the track and got much faster. Also brake MUCH harder and later than I ever did on the street. I grab a handful of brakes at 150mph and squeeze HARD. Rear end gets loose, but the front never locks up.
Can it happen? Sure, but it is most definitely not "insanely easy." I'll say it again... its tires and suspension. If you are a big guy, you need the right springs, and then you wont bottom out and lock up anything.
#29
07-07-2011, 02:09 PM
Not trying to step on anyone's toes here but you say its easy... is this personal proof or something? Do you lock up your front tire and wreck your bike often? Maybe on cold cheap tires in the rain or on sand is it easy to lock up your front tire...
I've seen racers brake so hard that the front rotors glow and the rear end is all over the place. I also know from personal experience. I used to be an aggressive little **** on the road, thought I was fast too. Got to the track and got much faster. Also brake MUCH harder and later than I ever did on the street. I grab a handful of brakes at 150mph and squeeze HARD. Rear end gets loose, but the front never locks up.
Can it happen? Sure, but it is most definitely not "insanely easy." I'll say it again... its tires and suspension. If you are a big guy, you need the right springs, and then you wont bottom out and lock up anything.
I've seen racers brake so hard that the front rotors glow and the rear end is all over the place. I also know from personal experience. I used to be an aggressive little **** on the road, thought I was fast too. Got to the track and got much faster. Also brake MUCH harder and later than I ever did on the street. I grab a handful of brakes at 150mph and squeeze HARD. Rear end gets loose, but the front never locks up.
Can it happen? Sure, but it is most definitely not "insanely easy." I'll say it again... its tires and suspension. If you are a big guy, you need the right springs, and then you wont bottom out and lock up anything.
Simply grabbing the front brake with as much force as possible is going to end in a lowside or worse for most people. That's what I'm emphasizing here. Your experience is probably just that: experience. Years and miles of riding automatically doing it the right way without a thought. But we're talking to newer riders here and have to explain what we do and how we do it thoroughly lest they kill themselves trying to replicate it.
#30
07-07-2011, 03:15 PM
I got taught to keep off the brake and clutch unless you needed them, but I always keep my middle and index atleast resting on the top of the break leaver (not the clutch). We were taught that as apparently the tendency for a newer rider is to panic and grab whatever is there, clutch kills the drive to the rear leaving the front to lock and throw you off. Not sure what other schools in the UK teach but where I learnt was 70/30 front to rear in the dry, 50/50 in the wet and rear only below 10mph.