front wheel lock-up when downshifting ? pls help !
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
and I have to say, that for you to say ...
"suspension settings are immaterial when someone is riding on the edge of a lowside due to poor braking skills."
...that Is quite wrong! .... suspension types and settings are intrinsically tied to axle hop issues !
Ok if you happen to be inexperienced at heavy breaking methods , well yer , even the best settings and suspension may not save you? ..... but it sure will minimize the risk of excessive axle hop ....that is a fact ...
..........
Last edited by CBRclassic; 09-08-2011 at 10:26 PM.
#22
Couple things:
There is no reason to shift down to 1st at 60+ km/h. At normal street riding this means you would be in third gear. Perhaps second if you like to be higher in the revs.
There is no shifting down in an emergency stop (unless we are talking about a faster stop than normal e.g. light is amber and you won't make it. In that case I'll blip and be in first by the time I have stopped), all you do is pull the clutch in and brake hard but controlled.
Are you perhaps putting slightly more pressure on the (front brake) lever when blipping/braking at the same time. You might also be locking up your rear tire on the hard downshifts. Since there is some play in the chain you might feel a knocking or bumping sensation when it does lock up and skip ever so slightly.
If I come to a corner and there is no real need for braking, I'll blip and downshift, feather the clutch and make sure that I'm smooth. Depending on the corner I might do this for one or two downshifts and rely on a little engine braking. However, when I do this I'm low in the revs. If I come fast to a corner and I blib down whilst higher in the revs, I'm always using the brakes and only feathering the clutch out when rev matched. Don't rely on heaving engine braking when coming in fast, the back might go on a little trip.
Keep working at it though, you'll get it. Did you take the MSF?
There is no reason to shift down to 1st at 60+ km/h. At normal street riding this means you would be in third gear. Perhaps second if you like to be higher in the revs.
There is no shifting down in an emergency stop (unless we are talking about a faster stop than normal e.g. light is amber and you won't make it. In that case I'll blip and be in first by the time I have stopped), all you do is pull the clutch in and brake hard but controlled.
Are you perhaps putting slightly more pressure on the (front brake) lever when blipping/braking at the same time. You might also be locking up your rear tire on the hard downshifts. Since there is some play in the chain you might feel a knocking or bumping sensation when it does lock up and skip ever so slightly.
If I come to a corner and there is no real need for braking, I'll blip and downshift, feather the clutch and make sure that I'm smooth. Depending on the corner I might do this for one or two downshifts and rely on a little engine braking. However, when I do this I'm low in the revs. If I come fast to a corner and I blib down whilst higher in the revs, I'm always using the brakes and only feathering the clutch out when rev matched. Don't rely on heaving engine braking when coming in fast, the back might go on a little trip.
Keep working at it though, you'll get it. Did you take the MSF?
#23
Well I did say "Aside from not being an idiot with your brakes or the throttle"
and I have to say, that for you to say ...
"suspension settings are immaterial when someone is riding on the edge of a lowside due to poor braking skills."
...that Is quite wrong! .... suspension types and settings are intrinsically tied to axle hop issues !
Ok if you happen to be inexperienced at heavy breaking methods , well yer , even the best settings and suspension may not save you? ..... but it sure will minimize the risk of excessive axle hop ....that is a fact ...
..........
and I have to say, that for you to say ...
"suspension settings are immaterial when someone is riding on the edge of a lowside due to poor braking skills."
...that Is quite wrong! .... suspension types and settings are intrinsically tied to axle hop issues !
Ok if you happen to be inexperienced at heavy breaking methods , well yer , even the best settings and suspension may not save you? ..... but it sure will minimize the risk of excessive axle hop ....that is a fact ...
..........
With a little investigating, turns out he was trying to transition from 90 MPH to a 30 MPH turn using downshifting / engine braking only. New tires and a perfect suspension setup wouldn't keep the rubber side down with that technique
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Heh Steve in that particular discussion the OP was wondering if his tires were causing the rear to lock when setting up for a turn.
With a little investigating, turns out he was trying to transition from 90 MPH to a 30 MPH turn using downshifting / engine braking only. New tires and a perfect suspension setup wouldn't keep the rubber side down with that technique
With a little investigating, turns out he was trying to transition from 90 MPH to a 30 MPH turn using downshifting / engine braking only. New tires and a perfect suspension setup wouldn't keep the rubber side down with that technique
Excuse me for just trying to expand on axle hop and the possible related reasons for it ....
ow well ....
.......
#25
Kuro, can you help clarify when down shifting ( not the purpose of manage speed ) is it only to be in the correct gear for the next maneuver? For excel when needed? I am practicing a lot lately & very surprise how fast I am able to shed speed with only the front brake. ( of course I practice in safe, control environment) I find myself hard to change my old habit of mine. Next thing I realized that I am using downshifting to control speed again. Then I switch to front brake....I think more practice slowly I'll get to 50/50 first, then work my way up. What ratio would you say front brake Vs engine braking is safe? I use to rely on engine brake like 90%/ 10% front brake. After few weeks practice, I think I am at 60/40?
My problem is when I focus on using my front brake more, I tend to forget to down shift gear to collaborate with speed shedding from front brake. i find myself in higher gear for the speed, then had to down 2 gears later....Its hard to describe my question.
My problem is when I focus on using my front brake more, I tend to forget to down shift gear to collaborate with speed shedding from front brake. i find myself in higher gear for the speed, then had to down 2 gears later....Its hard to describe my question.
#26
ahile,
You just need to slow things down a bit sunshine.
I've just read through this thread for the first time and what's coming over to me is 'Noob trying too hard, riding too fast, thinking wrong!'
You've got yourself a fast bike without the necessary ability or experience to know what to do with it properly.
Just listen to what's been said here (most of it appropriate IMO), slow the **** down for a while and start again from the beginning.
Practice changing gears up and down whilst being in relaxed mode. You don't have to race everywhere you go. Just chill out man!
Practice will make perfect. Trying to go too fast before you can physically and mentally handle it will get you smashed to pieces or at the very least cause undue wear on your drive train.
What really scares me about your opening statement is that you insinuate that you need to perform emergency stops routinely. Let me just put that into perspective for you.
I ride about 20 thousand mils a year. If I have to perform more than one a year I'll consider that I'm doing something wrong. I haven't really slammed on for about three years!
Now, just take it easy, don't think you've got to keep up with everyone else. Let the force be with you Skywalker.
Your clonks and bonks will soon disappear as your technique improves. If you still think you've got a mechanical problem take her into a bike shop for diagnosis. That may cost you no more than a pint for the mechanic.
Sorry if droned on but I can't sleep at night knowing that you may be out there riding so misguidedly. I don't want to see anyone get hurt by their own ignorance/inexperience.
Ride safe eh? Let us know how you get on.
You just need to slow things down a bit sunshine.
I've just read through this thread for the first time and what's coming over to me is 'Noob trying too hard, riding too fast, thinking wrong!'
You've got yourself a fast bike without the necessary ability or experience to know what to do with it properly.
Just listen to what's been said here (most of it appropriate IMO), slow the **** down for a while and start again from the beginning.
Practice changing gears up and down whilst being in relaxed mode. You don't have to race everywhere you go. Just chill out man!
Practice will make perfect. Trying to go too fast before you can physically and mentally handle it will get you smashed to pieces or at the very least cause undue wear on your drive train.
What really scares me about your opening statement is that you insinuate that you need to perform emergency stops routinely. Let me just put that into perspective for you.
I ride about 20 thousand mils a year. If I have to perform more than one a year I'll consider that I'm doing something wrong. I haven't really slammed on for about three years!
Now, just take it easy, don't think you've got to keep up with everyone else. Let the force be with you Skywalker.
Your clonks and bonks will soon disappear as your technique improves. If you still think you've got a mechanical problem take her into a bike shop for diagnosis. That may cost you no more than a pint for the mechanic.
Sorry if droned on but I can't sleep at night knowing that you may be out there riding so misguidedly. I don't want to see anyone get hurt by their own ignorance/inexperience.
Ride safe eh? Let us know how you get on.
#27
No worries I actually never knew ther term nor never had anyone explain it to me like you did. I just knew it was bad when it happened to me and had to muddle my way around it myself
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
A few replies have touch on this by saying slow down! , but I am going to be blunt now !!
In regard to that other thread mostly Kuro
ANYONE new to riding a road bike that tries to do 90mph and then slow down to 30 mph that suffers what I do not think that I could duplicate if I tried real hard.!!!... " axle hop the front wheel " and om not sure if that is actually possible under hard front breaking ... locking up yer ! , but hopping the bloody wheel ??? dunno about that ..
ANYWAY , THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE BLOODY ROAD YET !!!
...they should be in jail? (for dangerous riding) or back in rider training school , not here asking bloody dum **** questions that we all know the real answer too .....
"he is being A dangerous rider to say the least and prolly being an idiot on the road !!"
bad rider! , really bad bad rider !! .... lol
and really this applies to ahile too some what ...
the bike makes a very very strange noise, like bonking, and in the meantime the fork bonks up and down pretty hard and fast (like a swift tremble) – it gives the feeling that the front wheel may lock-up any second.
...........
Last edited by CBRclassic; 09-09-2011 at 08:56 PM.
#29
These two comments confuse me. If you took the MSF, then you should know that in an emergency stop on the street, it is IMPERATIVE that you downshift to first gear. What happens when you do come to a stop but then need to move quickly because the car behind you isn't going to stop in time? If you are in first gear, no problem. If you are in fourth gear, you are squished.
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
These two comments confuse me. If you took the MSF, then you should know that in an emergency stop on the street, it is IMPERATIVE that you downshift to first gear. What happens when you do come to a stop but then need to move quickly because the car behind you isn't going to stop in time? If you are in first gear, no problem. If you are in fourth gear, you are squished.
But to just rip the clutch in and try to pull up is the sign of a rider that has very little skill ....and prolly should not be on the road yet ??
In any panic stop situation, it is a combination of rapid gear changing downwards and very heavy braking "primarily at the front" that is the best method ....always has been and always will be !!!
If any rider cannot perorm this basic task?? , they should still be in training !!!
If you try to free wheel (clutch in )and brake heavily at very high speed , you will come unstuck eventually ....
Don't know who told you that ? , but as I said , it is the thing a very inexperienced rider might do ?, but is nothing that a rider that is actually in control of there bike would EVER do !
..........
Last edited by CBRclassic; 09-10-2011 at 04:12 AM.