Motorcycle Endorsement Laws
#12
02-07-2012, 01:49 PM
#13
02-07-2012, 03:35 PM
Party Animal, ROTM June 2014
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Sounds like an enforcement education issue....the officers all misunderstand the law. You could also try contacting the state police and seeing if they can send out a memo or something that clarifies the procedure.
Try this to contact the AMA...
Contact
Explain it to them and see if there is anything they can do to help.
Try this to contact the AMA...
Contact
Explain it to them and see if there is anything they can do to help.
#14
02-07-2012, 03:51 PM
#15
02-07-2012, 04:41 PM
Senior Member
The laws here are very clear. It depends on if you are a Temporary Permit, or Driver's License holder if the Officer was correct. The story you posted did not establish what type of license the rider held.
Per Ohio revised code 4507 (Driver's License Law) a Temporary Instruction Permit is not the same thing as a regular Driver's License. It is a Permit. It does have restrictions: According to state code 4507.05(b)
That establishes that yes, you can have a temporary permit, with a motorcycle endorsement. This allows a driver with this type of permit to operate a vehicle, including the motorcycle, only during daylight hours, no passengers, and wearing a helmet.
If you have a regular Drivers License (can operate the vehicle without having a licensed driver in the vehicle with you, at night, with no restrictions) with a motorcycle endorsement correct, and the endorsement is less than 1 year old, thereby requiring you to carry the "Novice" designation.
Code 4507.13 Contents and characteristics of driver's license:
Those Codes define the differences between a Temporary Permit, and a Driver's License, and indicate that you can have a motorcycle endorsement on each.
If your situation is only for the Driver's License definition, bearing a motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation (requiring wearing a helmet, regardless of age) then the code here in 4511.53 makes clear distinction between Novice and Temporary Permit operation.
4511.53(B):
This is the only language in "4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles." that pertains to you.
If you had a Temporary Permit, w/ the Motorcycle endorsement, then 4511.53(B) applies to you, plus 4511.53(c)(1 & 2)
For space saving 4511.53(c)(1) only states you have to wear a helmet.
SO - short story - if the driver is on a Temp Permit - can't drive anything @ night car or motorcycle. If the driver holds a non-restricted regular Drivers License w/ Motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation, you can drive at night, as long as you are wearing a helmet, as clearly outlined in Ohio Revised Code 4511.53(B). The Officer was citing 4511.53(C) which only applies to the Temporary Permit holder.
Per Ohio revised code 4507 (Driver's License Law) a Temporary Instruction Permit is not the same thing as a regular Driver's License. It is a Permit. It does have restrictions: According to state code 4507.05(b)
The registrar or a deputy registrar, upon receiving from any person an application for a temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card to operate a motorcycle or motorized bicycle, may issue such a permit and identification card entitling the applicant, while having the permit and identification card in the applicant’s immediate possession, to drive a motorcycle under the restrictions prescribed in section 4511.53 of the Revised Code, or to drive a motorized bicycle under restrictions determined by the registrar. A temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card to operate a motorized bicycle may be issued to a person fourteen or fifteen years old.
If you have a regular Drivers License (can operate the vehicle without having a licensed driver in the vehicle with you, at night, with no restrictions) with a motorcycle endorsement correct, and the endorsement is less than 1 year old, thereby requiring you to carry the "Novice" designation.
Code 4507.13 Contents and characteristics of driver's license:
Every driver’s or commercial driver’s license displaying a motorcycle operator’s endorsement and every restricted license to operate a motor vehicle also shall display the designation “novice,” if the endorsement or license is issued to a person who is eighteen years of age or older and previously has not been licensed to operate a motorcycle by this state or another jurisdiction recognized by this state. The “novice” designation shall be effective for one year after the date of issuance of the motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license.
If your situation is only for the Driver's License definition, bearing a motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation (requiring wearing a helmet, regardless of age) then the code here in 4511.53 makes clear distinction between Novice and Temporary Permit operation.
4511.53(B):
No person shall operate or be a passenger on a snowmobile or motorcycle without using safety glasses or other protective eye device. No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license bearing a “novice” designation that is currently in effect as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on the person’s head, and no other person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a protective helmet. The helmet, safety glasses, or other protective eye device shall conform with rules adopted by the director of public safety. The provisions of this paragraph or a violation thereof shall not be used in the trial of any civil action.
If you had a Temporary Permit, w/ the Motorcycle endorsement, then 4511.53(B) applies to you, plus 4511.53(c)(1 & 2)
For space saving 4511.53(c)(1) only states you have to wear a helmet.
(2) No person shall operate a motorcycle with a valid temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card issued by the registrar pursuant to section 4507.05 of the Revised Code in any of the following circumstances:
(a) At any time when lighted lights are required by division (A)(1) of section 4513.03 of the Revised Code;
(b) While carrying a passenger;
(c) On any limited access highway.
(a) At any time when lighted lights are required by division (A)(1) of section 4513.03 of the Revised Code;
(b) While carrying a passenger;
(c) On any limited access highway.
SO - short story - if the driver is on a Temp Permit - can't drive anything @ night car or motorcycle. If the driver holds a non-restricted regular Drivers License w/ Motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation, you can drive at night, as long as you are wearing a helmet, as clearly outlined in Ohio Revised Code 4511.53(B). The Officer was citing 4511.53(C) which only applies to the Temporary Permit holder.
Last edited by adrenalnjunky; 02-07-2012 at 04:46 PM.
#16
02-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Senior Member
The only thing I left out - the DMV (Registrar) can place restrictions on a regular driver's license: Stuff like "must be wearing corrective eyewear" or "daytime only".
I was assuming that in this situation, the driver's regular license did not have any of these restrictions, as those restrictions would certainly apply to the motorcycle as well.
I was assuming that in this situation, the driver's regular license did not have any of these restrictions, as those restrictions would certainly apply to the motorcycle as well.
#17
02-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Party Animal, ROTM June 2014
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He already said the rider had the motorcycle endorsement on his license, but was within one year of getting said endorsement so is considered a "novice". This is why the police made the rider go home. There is no language that I could find in the Ohio code that deals with "novice" riders, except that they must wear a helmet.
#18
02-08-2012, 07:32 AM
#19
02-08-2012, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
I guess that's what I was trying to say - there is nothing murky about the Novice designation if you have a normal unrestricted drivers license. All that Novice restricts you to is having to wear a helmet, regardless of your age, for a period of one year. Nothing else is required, by law, of a Novice rider according to the law on the books.
If it isn't in that code, right there, that any other restrictions are on Novice riders with normal Drivers Licenses, then it is not "law". The officer in question is not correct if he tells you otherwise.
Does that mean he can't pull you over and tell you to do something that is incorrect? No. And unless you are eloquently spoken, and have all of this stuff memorized, and he's in a debating mood, you probably don't want to get into an argument on the side of the road during a traffic stop. Disobeying the commands of a law officer is a good way to end up in the back seat of a patrol car. Even if the officer is incorrect, about as far as I would push the conversation is to advise him that you are aware of the law regarding a Novice designation, and that only Temporary Permit holders are not allowed to ride @ night. If he disagrees, maybe all you could do is ask him to confer with his shift supervisor, or request another patrol officer to discuss it with him. Maybe some of the LEO's around the forum could chime in on what the proper way to ask for something like that in a traffic stop is, or the best way to try and file a complaint with the department afterward. But ultimately, you don't want to get in an arguing match with a officer, on the side of the road, at night. You're not going to win once it gets to that point.
You might want to try contacting the police department public relations officer and informing him of the stop, and what you were incorrectly told. He/She should be able to inform you pf the proper limits of the law, and should be able to add a note to the training/briefing agenda for patrol officers as a quick refresher that Novice riders are allowed to ride @ night if their DL allows it.
If it isn't in that code, right there, that any other restrictions are on Novice riders with normal Drivers Licenses, then it is not "law". The officer in question is not correct if he tells you otherwise.
Does that mean he can't pull you over and tell you to do something that is incorrect? No. And unless you are eloquently spoken, and have all of this stuff memorized, and he's in a debating mood, you probably don't want to get into an argument on the side of the road during a traffic stop. Disobeying the commands of a law officer is a good way to end up in the back seat of a patrol car. Even if the officer is incorrect, about as far as I would push the conversation is to advise him that you are aware of the law regarding a Novice designation, and that only Temporary Permit holders are not allowed to ride @ night. If he disagrees, maybe all you could do is ask him to confer with his shift supervisor, or request another patrol officer to discuss it with him. Maybe some of the LEO's around the forum could chime in on what the proper way to ask for something like that in a traffic stop is, or the best way to try and file a complaint with the department afterward. But ultimately, you don't want to get in an arguing match with a officer, on the side of the road, at night. You're not going to win once it gets to that point.
You might want to try contacting the police department public relations officer and informing him of the stop, and what you were incorrectly told. He/She should be able to inform you pf the proper limits of the law, and should be able to add a note to the training/briefing agenda for patrol officers as a quick refresher that Novice riders are allowed to ride @ night if their DL allows it.
#20
02-08-2012, 09:36 AM
Senior Member
My only other question, why were you pulled over anyway? Typically you won't get pulled over, while wearing a helmet, so an officer can check your license type. How could he, what is his justification? You looked like a Novice under that helmet? You looked young behind that face shield? He just had a feeling you might be not allowed to drive @ night? Doesn't add up.
It is actually illegal in your state for an officer to perform a traffic stop for the sole reason of if they suspect the driver is a Temporary Permit holder that is in violation of the restrictions on that Permit.
Doesn't mean he can't pull you over for any other traffic violation instead, and then check your license.
My state has a BS law on the books since the 60's that simply states something to the effect of "no motor vehicle's exhaust may be altered to be louder than the original manufacturer's equipment" Nothing else. THere is no acoustical specification. It doesn't mean I can't put different exhaust on my vehicles, it just can't be louder than stock. They have no chart of how loud a 1992 CBR600 F2 is from the factory, and these officers don't have sound meters to test it with anyway. But they can pull you over to "assess" the loudness of you exhaust, and check for everything else too (license/insurance/registration/inspection/DWI, etc...) It's just a loophole to start a traffic stop to check everything else they wanna check.
It is actually illegal in your state for an officer to perform a traffic stop for the sole reason of if they suspect the driver is a Temporary Permit holder that is in violation of the restrictions on that Permit.
Doesn't mean he can't pull you over for any other traffic violation instead, and then check your license.
My state has a BS law on the books since the 60's that simply states something to the effect of "no motor vehicle's exhaust may be altered to be louder than the original manufacturer's equipment" Nothing else. THere is no acoustical specification. It doesn't mean I can't put different exhaust on my vehicles, it just can't be louder than stock. They have no chart of how loud a 1992 CBR600 F2 is from the factory, and these officers don't have sound meters to test it with anyway. But they can pull you over to "assess" the loudness of you exhaust, and check for everything else too (license/insurance/registration/inspection/DWI, etc...) It's just a loophole to start a traffic stop to check everything else they wanna check.
