I have a couple of questions regardingstrips, body postion,speed and the streetfor the more experienced riders here.
first, let me give you a little background on my experience. I have been riding bikes for about 6yrs, but just switched over to a sport bike last summer.
Had a couple of minor off road experiences last season, both attributed to classic inexeperienced rider panic. this year I am feeling much more confident and
my lines, lean angle,speed, andmy faith in my tiresare all improving everytime I go out.

my tires look much like "level two's" tires over on the chicken strip thread; about 3/4" on either side. I have never touched down a peg. The guys I ride with are what I would consider experienced. The guy that usually leads, is in his 40's, has been riding for years, and is FAST. the rest of the group isalmost as fast. I do not even attempt to keep up, as they wait for me at the stop signs. the thing is, none of these guys have any strips, they ride all the way to the edge. One of them just got an 07RR, and had the rear scrubbed in edge to edge in less than 50miles, all on the street. I just dont understand, how can you say you are only riding at 70-80%, yet have nothing left to lean on? But they insist that they still have more for emergencies.well, ok I guess?

Its not that tire wear is a real indicator of skill, however, I feel like maybe I am not trusting my bike enough, maybe I should be leaning it over further? They dont push me to ride faster in any way, but they do tellme, if you want- just lean it over more, it will take it. trust your tires! but, I wonder if I am leaning off the bike enough that I dont need to lean it that far? Or am I just chicken and slow?

I try to watch their body positioning, although it is hard because I usually lose site of them within a few turns. but from what I see, they mostly keep their street riding positions, meaning for the most part, the are not leaned out of the bike,not trying to "kiss the mirror' and are notlowering thier center of gravity. thus, I assume this is why they are leaning so far at such speed. (we try to ride a pace of about 70-75mph- but occasionally they turn it up).

Now here is where I start getting confused, I read that you should lean out, get your center of gravity down, kiss the mirror, etc. But then I also read, that typebody position has no place on the street, "aggressive" postion should be reserved for the track. For the street, you should just place your head and body just slightly on the inside of the center of the tank, and maybe lower your CG alitte. Well- which is it? do I practice a more conservative body postion, but have to lean over farther? Or do I practice a slightly more aggressive postion, and not lean so far, ( which is what I currently do, and that is my excuse for the chicken strips). Or should I be somewhere inbetween the two style?

I am trying to improve my confidence and comfort level in the corners, as speed will come naturally after confidence. but I cant quite figure out exactly which style/body position I should be working on. Anyone have any advice? I am signing up for Keith Codes level 1 track school, but he is not coming to mid-Ohio until August. Until then, I just keep putting the miles in, leaning a little further, and slowly turning up the speed a little.

 

signing up for a trackday is the best choice to seek your answers

 

Well, first off - I'm not, "of the more experienced," but I do love track style riding and do a fair amount of self-criticism.

I don't know what you're riding, but when I started getting interested in the racing aspect of it all, I thought my bike wasn't going to be able to compete. I watched all the others riding and I just thought - how the hell do their bikes grip like that? I mean - they had no difference in riding position, and their bikes were so far over it was kinda spooky.

I did some re-evaluating of my own and my riding position sucked. I was leaning waay too far for what I was doing. The only time you need to get the bike that sideways is when you're doing 100+ on TIGHT decreasing radius corners... okay - maybe not the ONLY time, but for the majority of street riders who share an enthusiasm for the twisties it isn't necessary.

I did some work on my body position, still working on it. Did some work on transfering weight to the front of the bike on entrances, still working on it. Still working on maintaining a solid, nice sightline and powering through apexes.

All this can be done on the street at just above posted speed limits. I'm not telling you to go ***** to the wall, but a lot of usride hardand we rely on our best judgement to determine when it is safe to do so. Hopefully that judgement works for us.

These days, my bike has almost no lean (unless I'm riding with my girlfriend on this one highway... man it's fun but I can't hang off the bike with a passenger), my corners are tighter, I'm able to come into a corner with more heat and accelerate out much more smoothly while maintaining my lines through the whole thing. If I miss a line- I straighten the bike up, and seriously think about why I did it. Too much speed, not enough love on the front brake, too late on the front brake, accelerating early or late - body position? These are things I need to know and hopefully I'll be around long enough to figure the majority of them out.

My opinion:

Lean and ride like you're running the MotoGP class - just not at the speeds. Obviously not in highly populated areas - again, use your best judgement. If you're interested in this stuff, and it sounds like you are - there is absolutely no reason to develop bad habits that will carry over with you if/when you hit the track.

Be safe, have fun and good luck!

 

ive never heard of street vs track body position, i usually try and kiss the mirror and move my *** off the seat, i tilt my legs up so my knees dont scrape, when i got my qualifiers i took em out and went to the edge on both sides, never been that low before, never trusted my tires before, u just gotta know that your bike and your tires can handle more than you can give em, and lean that ****, just make sure the tires are warm, countersteer!

 

IMHO....

A HUGE misconception is that if one has no chicken strips (i.e. at the edge of the tire), then you are at the limit of traction. That is NOT the case!Supposea lean angle of 40 degrees wouldburn yourchicken strips. But the tire can still lean further because has a max lean angle of 50 deg (btw, these numbers aren't far off from real world). So just because you've scrubbed off the chicken strips doesn't mean your at the limit. However, you will have a smaller contact patch as you lean more than the chicken strip limit.


I understand your urge and desire to want to get better. But keep in mind that lean angle is only a small fraction of riding skill. For your current skill set, your lean angle is fine (you're obviously getting through the turn).There is such a thing as too leaning too much. Lean angle is determined not just by speed, but also the particular line taken and how you brake (though this may not be apparent until you do a trackday where you will take much different lines and brake very differently from your street riding). I wouldn't be too worried about lean angle right now, especially since you're only riding the street. Ithink your time would be better spent working on your vision skills and being smooth with the throttle and brake. You'd be surprised how much faster you can go if you're eyes are looking in the right place.

That's a good riding group. Stick with them and you'll learn a lot.

At this time, I wouldn't worry too much about body position either. Again like lean angle, body position is a small fraction of riding skill. Look at former MotoGP champ Mike Hailwood. His tires and suspension had far less traction then your bike has now he never left the seat. I'm not saying body position isn't helpful. But in order to reap the full benefits of body position, you need lots of speed. The street isn't safe for that! That's part of the reason why the experienced guys in your riding group aren't hanging off as much (though they may not realize it). Ever try hanging off at a slow speed (I mean like 5 mph)??? Notice how uncomfortable it is????????

 

Damnit that's a lot to respond to.
Wanna see how far your bike will go down before you are over the edge?
While parked, have a friend you trust help, lower the bike to it's side until it is at the edge. Now granted, your front tire will be at a differant angle at a real ride, but it will at least give you a "better" idea of how low it will actually go.
As for me, the "style" of turn I make depends on how I'm riding. If I'm riding some nice tight double-backs or what not, I'm switching seating position because that ****s just fun. If I'm making some s turns or a regular ole turn, I keep regular ride position, unless I am actually going to gun on it at apex.

I think the true test of how low you actually get is probably best messured with your front tire "chicken strips", as that wheel will be pointing a differant direction in a nice fast turn, therefor, I believe will show smaller strips. I could be wrong, I've only briefly thought on the subject. Hmm...

 

I ride in the rain, and I CAN'T trust my tires. I lean off like a madman, which leaves chicken strips on the tires. I've never crashed in the rain. IMO, leaning off gives you a bigger margin of error, and gives your tires better grip. I'm pretty damn fast in the tight stuff, and have alot of confidence on bad road surfaces because I don't have to put any faith in my tires. I don't drag my knees, but I think I probably could if I was pushing my back to 80+%. I don't do that on the street because of things like cars and trees.

Bottom line (for me): I'd rather trust my body position than my bike, so I try use the best body position possible, which I think is leaning off.

 

That Hurricane looks sick man - did you take out the airbox? Wires (or lack thereof) are nice and clean man.

Also - what's up with that seat? Looks like a 600RR tail but where did you get the front saddle? Is it custom?

Dude - I love it!!!

 

Thanks, man.

Airbox is still there, under the tank.
The wires I run under the tank. They exit right on either side of the steering neck.
The seat is actually a stock Hurricane seat that I cut in half and then revinyled. It doesn't fit the RR tail really well, so I'd like to get an RR seat and try and make it work.

 

i have noticed i can sit straight up and just push the bike over and make it through long sweepers. i think its kind of fun just to see how far you can push it. though im worried about street debris.