Off Topic A place for you CBR junkies to boldly go off topic. Almost anything goes.

Automakers Say You Donít Really Own Your Vehicle

  #1  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:37 PM
Nikolaya's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 16
Default Automakers Say You Donít Really Own Your Vehicle

There is a patent issue brewing that we in the car/cycle hobby need to pay attention to and act upon, the right to modify the code that OEM's use to control the automotive systems. These include the powertrain, of course, but extend to other areas like climate control, internet, entertainment, anything computer controlled. OEM's are trying to prevent any third parties from being able to make changes of any kind claiming they actually own the code and don't give up ownership when you buy the vehicle. In other words you may own the vehicle but you don't own the software that runs it. There is a petition you can sign, https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/0...y-own-your-car, and for the sake of ownership rights I suggest to educate yourself and act accordingly.
 

Last edited by Nikolaya; 05-07-2015 at 01:39 PM.
  #2  
Old 05-07-2015, 07:47 PM
zaqwert6's Avatar
Nov 2011 ROTM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: O-Town
Posts: 655
Default

They're right. It's no different than the OS on your PC, cell phone, cable box, satellite dish etc etc. There are a ton of things the you can buy but ownership of the embedded 'code' is not transferred to the buyer. This is no different IMO.
 
  #3  
Old 05-08-2015, 07:18 PM
Michelle's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 91
Default

They're half right. They own the code, but bundling the computer systems together means you can't alter your sound system because it is linked to the rest of the car and you can't modify the engine management because it is linked to the immobiliser ... and the only way that would be possible is by messing with the operating system.
Micro$oft tried that when they bundled Internet Exploiter with Windoze so you wouldn't use a third party browser. It didn't end well.

Its not like aftermarket tuners are competing with manufacturers to sell ECUs. You already bought the factory one with the vehicle. If someone reverse engineers it and makes a piggyback performance ECU, how is that hurting the original manufacturer who has already been paid?
 
  #4  
Old 05-09-2015, 09:38 AM
zaqwert6's Avatar
Nov 2011 ROTM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: O-Town
Posts: 655
Default

"Half" right is plenty in a court of law.

The bottom line is the code is IP, like much of everything else. You buy a car, so now you own the car but you don't not own the rights to the IP involved. You can't start manufacturing branded Corvettes and Cadillacs simply because you purchased one.

On top of that, an automobile software package has become so integrated in the vehicle operation, much of it is essential to the vehicles safety and reliability, such that tampering with the code can be deadly to the owner and the everyone else on the road. Manufacturers have be shown to over and over to be legally liability for damages based on failures/flaws/glitches well after original ownership and/or warranty period have expired....and rightly so in many cases. They have to protect themselves and everyone else on the road should also be protected.

I understand many won't like that opinion.
 

Last edited by zaqwert6; 05-09-2015 at 09:43 AM.
  #5  
Old 05-10-2015, 02:17 AM
Michelle's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 91
Default

Originally Posted by zaqwert6 View Post
You can't start manufacturing branded Corvettes and Cadillacs simply because you purchased one.
That was my point. Nobody is copying their product. They only want the code so they can make a different product work with the vehicle's existing system.
If the manufacturers had their way, we wouldn't be allowed to have a workshop manual and only their authorised technicians would be able to work on the vehicle you legally own. Stuff 'em I reckon. Power Commander anyone?
 
  #6  
Old 05-10-2015, 06:28 PM
DRam's Avatar
Very Honorable Most Senior Member :)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Montana, USA
Posts: 769
Default

Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
That was my point. Nobody is copying their product. They only want the code so they can make a different product work with the vehicle's existing system.
If the manufacturers had their way, we wouldn't be allowed to have a workshop manual and only their authorised technicians would be able to work on the vehicle you legally own. Stuff 'em I reckon. Power Commander anyone?
That's where they are headed. Right now the very little the home mechanic can do to late model vehicles.

Thats the major reason a '97 Dodge pickup is in my garage - there is very little I can't repair or replace on it. My 2006 van? If anything major breaks I might as well junk it. Cost of repairs is would probably be more than it's worth. Bikes seem to be heading the same way. Guess I'll stick with the '91 CBR for a few more years.
 
  #7  
Old 05-11-2015, 08:45 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Redcoat, & Maxwell's Silver Hammer, MVN and curmudgeon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mud hut, Zululand
Posts: 11,614
Default

So if you buy a new bike you can't change the chip to improve the performance ?
Seems a bit strange, given that MotoGP bikes use a huge variety of electronic gizmo's to improve performance - from all sorts of manufacturers like MotoMarelli etc - hells bells, Ducati make a special chip for the 916 to give you an extra 1000 revs and better overall performance !
I would say this - if you modify anything on a bike, a car or even a toaster with a part that isn't OEM or approved by them the original guarantee doesn't apply anymore - that's the case anyway in most cases, so how is this any different ?
And yes DRam old friend - I like old machines - I can fix them without a degree in electronics
and deep pockets !
 
  #8  
Old 05-25-2015, 08:15 AM
TimBucTwo's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NY,The Land of Taxes
Posts: 4,030
Default

Sounds to me like they don't want you turning off OnStar. They want to be able to track you and Know your direction of travel and speed. The governments may be giving them money for the tracking software and their greed for money will over power the will to do what is right.
 
  #9  
Old 05-31-2015, 03:52 AM
Mattson's Avatar
Retired Super Moderator, Tin Star Man & Hurricane Saloon Prospect, ROTM Feb 2015
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vššksy, Finland
Posts: 2,382
Default

Nothing new here really. The software business has been like this forever, they're just figuring out new ways to enforce it. For instance think about games. Before you bought a physical copy of the game, and before the internet era the only way they could try to ensure that no copies are made of it there was an authentication code you had to punch in. It was relatively easy to go round either by copying the code from your friend or downloading a code generator program from the net (or a peer server in the olden days). It's pretty much the same today, only now you have to do it through Steam or some other server software so once the code is entered it locks to your IP so you cannot sell the game forward. You don't buy or own the SOFTWARE, only the license to use it. The vehicle is yours but the code that makes it tick is theirs.
 
  #10  
Old 06-01-2015, 06:36 PM
Conrice's Avatar
Retired Super Moderator and Fighterer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,148
Default

So MegaSquirt?


I still don't see how if I'm not using their code/software, or if its been completely modified, how I'm violating their intellectual property rights.

Again, I'm not duplicating it in order to copy it.
 

Last edited by Conrice; 06-01-2015 at 06:38 PM.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Automakers Say You Donít Really Own Your Vehicle


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.