Hi Guys:

Being that I've never ridden a bike, I have a couple questions...

First, when I shift into first gear, sometimes I get a clunk and a slight movement of the car. Now on my application, I have a driveshaft directly mounted off the gearbox. On a bike, is some of the lash from going from nuetral into first taken up by the chain? Do you guys ever hear the sound or feel your bike try to move you forward slightly?

Second, when I go from first into second, I engage the clutch and jam it into second. Sometimes I get a nuetral. Does this ever happen to you guys? To shift, I put a little pressure on the shifter, then let off the throttle and engage the clutch quickly, then push it into second. Does this seem right?

From second gear onwards, I lift the throttle quickly and switch to the next gear--no clutch. There is never really any sound or drama; the next gear just engages. Is this the proper way to do these things?

Finally, and this is the hardest for me to do, how do you guys downshift? Say you're coing up to a traffic light. What is your procedure for going down? Do you rev-match all the way down until you're stopped? Currently, at the last minute, I press the clutch in and rev-match the way down as best I can. Sometimes I crunch a gear in the process! The worse is when I can't find nuetral and I have to wait the light out with my foot on the clutch.

I'm switching to paddle shifters like an F1 car in the next couple weeks, so hopefully I get better at this. But as you can tell, I'm not really experienced as to the details of using a sequential gearbox.

--Thanks, Chris

 

Are you serious? I thought I've seen you posting up on here like oh........47 times and you are just now asking this? If you're serious I'll help you. Yes there is drive lash and some of it is taken up in the chain when you put it into 1st. The "clunking" is normal and every bike does this. Shifting seems right I guess but why no clutch after 2nd? I guess I use my clutch all the way up and down. Downshifting coming to a complete stop, I usually coast to a slower speed in what ever gear I happen to be in and as it starts to lug the engine I pull in the clutch and shift all the way to 1st as i come to a stop. For cornering then yes, I "blip" the throttle to match engine speed. Hope this helps.

 

Of course I'm serious. I know a lot about the Fireblade engine and the associated electronics, but I've never ridden a sport bike (or any bike for that matter before). I'm too *****. Notice I never post on how to ride these things...I have no idea.

On the no clucth past second, I used to use the clutch, but it seems like if I don't do it fast enough, the gears would crunch. When I don't use the clutch, it snicks right into gear. I tried it a couple times from first to second, but sometime I would pop into neutral, which wasn't good.

So when coming to a stop in, say, 4th, just press the brake until the engine starts to chug--then shift all the way into first? I take it the clutch is never let out? When you guys are at lights and in 1st gear but need to go into second, do you have to rock the bike to get it out of gear? I'm having trouble with this because I'm strapped in so tight that I can barely reach the mirror to adjust them. When I'm stopped and in 1st but want to go into neutral, I just wait it out.

Thanks for the help thus far.

--Chris

 

For what it's worth, I can tell you what I do:
BTW riding bikes when I was a kid helped me to drive stick shift in cars, so i think a lot of things are similar. Can/Do you drive a standard shift car? Use some of that knowledge and relate it to your bike riding.

If you're in 4th and coming to a stop, you can:
1.Pull in clutch and use the brakes, while shifting down until your N light goes on. Since you've engaged the clutch, you can move up and down as you like, until you find Neutral
2. Downshift, using your engine to help you stop, be VERY careful with this one, because if you downshift to too low of a gear, your back tire will skid.

For instance, if I was in 4th and knew I was coming to a stop ahead, I would pull in the clutch and slow down a bit using the brakes. When I got around 10-20 miles an hour slower, and I still had the clutch in, I'd downshift one gear, and SLOWLY let out the clutch. The engine will rev and will slow you down quite a bit. When it got down to about 3-4K RPM, I'd pull in the clutch again, downshift to 2nd, and slowly let out the clutch again. Repeat as you slown down enough to downshift to first. Some people I've seen (and heard) like using their engine to slow down, some don't. You can tell when riders do, 'cause you can hear their engine rev as they slow. I'm not sure if using your engine to help slow down is bad for your bike, but I do it when I drive my cars, and it doesn't seem to hurt. Jake brakes in Semi-trucks work along the same lines. Ever been next to a semi and hear it revving as it comes to a stop? They're using their engine/Jake brake.

Not sure what you meant when rocking your bike into 1st or 2nd. Practice Practice Practice, to see what best fits your style. I've never had a problem getting bikes into N or into gear, but I will say sometimes it just takes a gentle nudge with your left foot. Try pushing it down all the way, 3-4 times if your in 4th, then nudge it up once. that should have you in neutral.

A firm upshift should put you right into 2nd from 1st, and I've rarely skipped and gone from 2nd into 3rd. To do that, I'd have to raise the shifter lever twice. If your going to N after 1st when upshifting to 2nd, you just need to push up harder with your foot.

I also use the clutch ALL the time when I shift. Transmissions in cars have syncros in them to help your engine/transmission mesh right when you shift, and although I've power shifted at the track, I still used my clutch, just kept the gas pedal floored, and slammed it into the next gear.

Hope this helps, just my opinion.

 

i just read a post by you saying your idle is set at 1500rpm. first, why? second, lower to around a 1000rpm and that should help with your clunk, and slight lunge, into first.

finding neutral upshifting in second, from first, is a problem with all CBR900RRs. there is too long of a throw from first to second. try making some type of linkage that will shorten that throw.

your shifting technique is fine. i found, to go faster, the best way is to "power" shift-keep the throttle open while you pull in the clutch and shift. if its too hard to shift, your clutch isn't engaging fully (which will also cause that lunge when stopped and shifting into first). i'll power shift through every gear when racing.

with down shifting, it's always best to rev-match. (when coming to a stop, it doesn't matter what you do). when driving fast or racing, you don't want to upset the suspension with abrupt downshifting. also, you can lose traction on drive wheels. since we're talking about a car, this is very important. you have more weight, more rolling mass, and more rotating inertia making it a better chance of breaking something. my best advice would be to run a slipper clutch in your set-up. it will help a great deal.

why do you want to run paddles?? i think the sequential shift is trick. for a regular car set-up, paddles are a way to go to get rid of shifting through gates. i think your best bet would be to mount the shifter up high next the steering wheel. i think it would be more natural, and faster, to shift. see if you can mock something up to get a feel for it.

anyway, hope my info helped. let me know if i can help with anything else. i built a few sandrails with motorcycle powerplants, so i have an idea what you went through with your project.......

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I went out for a quick spin last night and used the suggested method for down shifting when coming to a stop. It works really well. Just before I come to a stop, I shift smoothly into nuetral and it works perfectly. Before, I rev-matched all the way down. The new way works smoother for regular street driving.

When upshifting, I'm still finding that I can do it faster by slightly lifting off throttle and sliding it into the next gear. I tried using the clutch and it just doesn't work as well.

I'll turn the idle down a bit and see if that helps. When I drove last night, the engine raised the idle from 1.5k up to 3k all by itself. Why would that happen? It was a very hot day and the engine was not running long. Any ideas?

About the paddleshift.. Right now, I have the shifter 3 inches from the steering wheel. It works fine, but I have to remove my left hand from the wheel to shift. I now have a paddle shift system that I have not fitted yet. It uses a rod that goes directly to the shifter arm--similar to what I have now. It works sequentially--one down and five up. The nice thing is that I do not have to remove my hands from the steering wheel to shift.

I just posted pictures of my paddleshift system and some other stuff on my website:


--Again, thanks for the help on this one, Chris
www.fiaccone.com then my.build then Summer06

 

Most guys I know rarely use the clutch to upsift. A motorcycle tranny is designed to to be shifted like that. The is a rubber dampner built into the rear hub of a motorcyle wheel that helps ease the clunk that you are talking about. If it is that bad, make sure you clutch isn't dragging when you pull in the lever (push the pedal?) all the way. With the added weight of the car, you will most likely need a heavy duty clutch too as you are probably slipping it more off the line than on a motorcyle. You can actually downshift easily without the clutch too, it is the opposite of the upsift though. Put pressure on the shifter while you are braking and then slightly and quickly blip the throttle. The tranny should go into gear easily. It does take practice and once you get the hang of it it is just as smooth as upshifting. Once I am moving, I never need the clutch until I have to come to a stop.