For real (eperienced) racers only Please
#11
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
please don't take this the wrong way .... but it really sounds like you are too afraid to lean the bike cos you think it will fall and get scratched,
you got to get past that, where you lookis where the bike will turn,you have to look where the bike will exit the turn and the bike will follow.
do you find turningoneway easier than than the othe?
you got to get past that, where you lookis where the bike will turn,you have to look where the bike will exit the turn and the bike will follow.
do you find turningoneway easier than than the othe?
#12
#13
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
Ok, I've read over this a couple of times, to me (as a racer) it sound like 95% of your problem is mental, and 5% is suspension / set-up related.
The first thing I would recommend is purchasing three books:
1) Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code - This book, even though old completely changed the way I ride. In fact I'm on my second copy as I read & re-read my first one so much it literately fell apart. I still to this day keep re-reading it after 10 years. But be warned it's a very hard read and you can only really absorb small amounts at a time. - Don't bother with Twist of the wrist 1, or soft science of racing, just get #2.
2) Total Control by Lee Parks - Good book
3) Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch - Probably one of the best "recently written" books on the subject.
If you actually sit down and really read these with a open mind, these books will make you realize you know absolutely nothing about really riding a motorcycle, I know because that's what they made realize and I had been riding for on the street for 5 years, and in the dirt (including racing motocross) since I was 6, before I picked up Twist of the Wrist 2.
The second thing, while your suspension, more specifically the springs, are not right for your weight, they are more than up to the task at the pace you'll be running your first time out. I wouldn't recommend touching them until after you've done a least a couple of track days.
Here's the baseline setting I'd recommend - I raced on this (but adjusted for each different track) for a year with a COMPLETELY STOCK suspension. - But check your race sag...
Front: Pre-load = 1 line showing, compression = 1/2 turn out from max, rebound = 1 1/2 turns out from max
REAR: Pre-load = MAX, compression = 1 1/2 turns out from max, rebound = 1 turn out from max.[/align]
But if you must "have them done"- Have Ed at Trackside Engineering (Google for his website or PM me) re-work/re-spring your stock shock (about $300) - I race on one all last year, I guarantee it's every bit as good as a Elka or base model Penske. As for the Forks, he also can re-work the stock valves, shimstack and re-spring it for you for far less than a most charge to just to drop in a valve kit with springs. Or for a step above that give Ryan at Lithium Motorsports (again google it or PM me) a call. For less than $1000 buck he will modify and drop in Ohlins 20mm super sport internals, springs and valving to suit the 600RR (they have been racing the 600RR since 03, so they know how to set them up).
Third, Don't just go out and do a track-day, take an actual riding / racing class. If you don't you'll be out there practicing all the wrong things. I'm also assuming that since your in Kansas, you know about TackAddix track days right?[/align]
The first thing I would recommend is purchasing three books:
1) Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code - This book, even though old completely changed the way I ride. In fact I'm on my second copy as I read & re-read my first one so much it literately fell apart. I still to this day keep re-reading it after 10 years. But be warned it's a very hard read and you can only really absorb small amounts at a time. - Don't bother with Twist of the wrist 1, or soft science of racing, just get #2.
2) Total Control by Lee Parks - Good book
3) Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch - Probably one of the best "recently written" books on the subject.
If you actually sit down and really read these with a open mind, these books will make you realize you know absolutely nothing about really riding a motorcycle, I know because that's what they made realize and I had been riding for on the street for 5 years, and in the dirt (including racing motocross) since I was 6, before I picked up Twist of the Wrist 2.
The second thing, while your suspension, more specifically the springs, are not right for your weight, they are more than up to the task at the pace you'll be running your first time out. I wouldn't recommend touching them until after you've done a least a couple of track days.
Here's the baseline setting I'd recommend - I raced on this (but adjusted for each different track) for a year with a COMPLETELY STOCK suspension. - But check your race sag...
Front: Pre-load = 1 line showing, compression = 1/2 turn out from max, rebound = 1 1/2 turns out from max
REAR: Pre-load = MAX, compression = 1 1/2 turns out from max, rebound = 1 turn out from max.[/align]
But if you must "have them done"- Have Ed at Trackside Engineering (Google for his website or PM me) re-work/re-spring your stock shock (about $300) - I race on one all last year, I guarantee it's every bit as good as a Elka or base model Penske. As for the Forks, he also can re-work the stock valves, shimstack and re-spring it for you for far less than a most charge to just to drop in a valve kit with springs. Or for a step above that give Ryan at Lithium Motorsports (again google it or PM me) a call. For less than $1000 buck he will modify and drop in Ohlins 20mm super sport internals, springs and valving to suit the 600RR (they have been racing the 600RR since 03, so they know how to set them up).
Third, Don't just go out and do a track-day, take an actual riding / racing class. If you don't you'll be out there practicing all the wrong things. I'm also assuming that since your in Kansas, you know about TackAddix track days right?[/align]
#14
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
ORIGINAL: NotSoMellowYellow
1) Getting it over, I feel as if I have to hang off the bike, way off when turning at speed. I am definatly not a novice but I have been timid to push the bike to hard. Due to the love I have for it, I couldn't bear dropping her just because I wanted to prove myself and show my *****. I hang off to get the weight further over because when the bike leans over it seems to loose traction and get very heavy on the inside. as if it is going to fall and it takes a lot of steering to get it to stand back up. The tires feel as if I am on slime in the back and it is just a mater of minutes before she goes out from under me.
1) Getting it over, I feel as if I have to hang off the bike, way off when turning at speed. I am definatly not a novice but I have been timid to push the bike to hard. Due to the love I have for it, I couldn't bear dropping her just because I wanted to prove myself and show my *****. I hang off to get the weight further over because when the bike leans over it seems to loose traction and get very heavy on the inside. as if it is going to fall and it takes a lot of steering to get it to stand back up. The tires feel as if I am on slime in the back and it is just a mater of minutes before she goes out from under me.
Get those books Jason recommended and read them cover to cover multiple times (after 3 years, I'm shocked you haven't done this already) before getting to the track and keep doing what your doing...asking questions and by the time you get to the track, you'll have a good foundation and might just surprise yourself...or crash...
#15
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
ORIGINAL: NotSoMellowYellow
As far a settings go I tried sport rider mag settings and they work fine on the road until I try to get giggy with it. Let me ask some more anoying questions here. Same question new perspective.
Why would the front tire trail outwards, or fade out from under the bike when in a steep turn too much counter steering? suspension to soft causing the bike to close the forks? Dampining not letting the forks rise back up and forks sink and stay compressed, or oposit staying out too far and to much rake causing the choper syndrome. I know it is probably a combo but there should be more of one of these things causing the problem so that I can start from there. right now I have rear at 5, 4 clicks out, and 2.5 turns out. front at 2 lines on the pre load 2.5 out on top and 2.5 out on bottom.
I tried, in more and out more, on both rebound and compression of course as they went in more bike was very stif is this better for harder riding I would assume so because of high speed.
I am unsure how to describe the action of the bike but here it goes. If the bike were traveling straight and then you cornered it feels as if the front wants to keep going straight and the back doesnt want to swing around so that the front can dig into the pavement. For example if you were to draw a line in the turn exactly in the middle throughout the whole turn, Lets say your making a right turn in this case, the bike seems towant the front tire on theleft side of the line and the rear tire wants to go to theright sideof the line. Thus putting the *** end closer to the inside of the turn than the fron tire. I would think this should be oposite, where the rear tire is further out side than the front so that the front digs in and the rear trails a bit further outside than the front. Am I just completely wrong or what.
I am sure you guys think I am stupid for dragging this shtread out so long but I am willing to go all the way to the spool to figure out this riding mistery.
As far a settings go I tried sport rider mag settings and they work fine on the road until I try to get giggy with it. Let me ask some more anoying questions here. Same question new perspective.
Why would the front tire trail outwards, or fade out from under the bike when in a steep turn too much counter steering? suspension to soft causing the bike to close the forks? Dampining not letting the forks rise back up and forks sink and stay compressed, or oposit staying out too far and to much rake causing the choper syndrome. I know it is probably a combo but there should be more of one of these things causing the problem so that I can start from there. right now I have rear at 5, 4 clicks out, and 2.5 turns out. front at 2 lines on the pre load 2.5 out on top and 2.5 out on bottom.
I tried, in more and out more, on both rebound and compression of course as they went in more bike was very stif is this better for harder riding I would assume so because of high speed.
I am unsure how to describe the action of the bike but here it goes. If the bike were traveling straight and then you cornered it feels as if the front wants to keep going straight and the back doesnt want to swing around so that the front can dig into the pavement. For example if you were to draw a line in the turn exactly in the middle throughout the whole turn, Lets say your making a right turn in this case, the bike seems towant the front tire on theleft side of the line and the rear tire wants to go to theright sideof the line. Thus putting the *** end closer to the inside of the turn than the fron tire. I would think this should be oposite, where the rear tire is further out side than the front so that the front digs in and the rear trails a bit further outside than the front. Am I just completely wrong or what.
I am sure you guys think I am stupid for dragging this shtread out so long but I am willing to go all the way to the spool to figure out this riding mistery.
I'm no expert with the suspension, but I know enough to have people who do know what they're doing help (or do it for me) set the bike up...focus more on your skills because as it reads in this thread, you could be a danger to yourself...especially when you try to get "giggy with it" at the track...
#16
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
ORIGINAL: Fretless33
Oh...my....God....I took the time to read this post and you really need to stop! Take some time to hone your growing abilities and consult with someone who knows what the fudge their doing with a suspension!!! You're tinkering, guessing and taking generic settings from magazines with absolutely no idea what you're doing, or the effects they're going to have! I'm sure after three years of this "guessing" technique, you have yourself trapped into some bad habits that are going to be very difficult to break once you get into the classroom!
I'm no expert with the suspension, but I know enough to have people who do know what they're doing help (or do it for me) set the bike up...focus more on your skills because as it reads in this thread, you could be a danger to yourself...especially when you try to get "giggy with it" at the track...
Oh...my....God....I took the time to read this post and you really need to stop! Take some time to hone your growing abilities and consult with someone who knows what the fudge their doing with a suspension!!! You're tinkering, guessing and taking generic settings from magazines with absolutely no idea what you're doing, or the effects they're going to have! I'm sure after three years of this "guessing" technique, you have yourself trapped into some bad habits that are going to be very difficult to break once you get into the classroom!
I'm no expert with the suspension, but I know enough to have people who do know what they're doing help (or do it for me) set the bike up...focus more on your skills because as it reads in this thread, you could be a danger to yourself...especially when you try to get "giggy with it" at the track...
Get yourself to a riding school or three and hone yourskillsFIRST before attempting to start doing any trackdays. Just because you have 31,000 miles on your bike doesn't mean that you are an experienced rider. Not baggin on ya, just pointing out the obvious.
#18
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
Well After all of this typing and reading I took my bike in to a Real expert to have him look at it. This guy races both track and drag. appearantly he is really great at the drag racing and isn't too bad on the track either. He is the only custom and racing guy around here. He tells me that the springs are sh*t and I need to just go ahead and redo the shock too my weight any way. he was having difficulties durring his short ride andhe believes that one or both fork tubescould bebent, warped or somthing.he hasn't taken them apart yet but he does believe that the suspension is not right at all. He also says that they are twisted in the tree, I couldn't tell (course I am blind in one eye). I didn't have time for the details but I am going back up there today. I bet he tells me that 30,000+ miles with my fat A$$ on this little bike has taken its toll on the springs and forks.
My next question will be how could the forks be bent or warped if never droped or down.
My next question will be how could the forks be bent or warped if never droped or down.
#19
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
your fork doesn't have to be bent to notice the bad fork i don't think...like you said 30,000 miles on a stock suspension is alot...i would take it to a suspension specialized shop ( i could refer you one if you live in N. Cal.) and tell 'em your problems...
#20
RE: For real (eperienced) racers only Please
ORIGINAL: cksean
your fork doesn't have to be bent to notice the bad fork i don't think...like you said 30,000 miles on a stock suspension is alot...i would take it to a suspension specialized shop ( i could refer you one if you live in N. Cal.) and tell 'em your problems...
your fork doesn't have to be bent to notice the bad fork i don't think...like you said 30,000 miles on a stock suspension is alot...i would take it to a suspension specialized shop ( i could refer you one if you live in N. Cal.) and tell 'em your problems...