Sorry, off topic....

Ya, I am super stoked on the trials bike (just picked it up on Sunday). We have a club here that owns 175 acres of wooded hills, just need to become a member now

I also have a couple old XL/XR250R's, not that they can handle much in the way of jumps but they are great fun on the trails.
what kind of dirtbike you got Jesse?

 

99 Yamaha WR400. A bit of a pig on the trails, but then again it's comporable to your XR's probably. It rallys pretty good, and I had the suspension completely rebuilt, resprung and revalved by Pro Motion suspension. I'm still somewhat new to riding, but I get around pretty well.

Intresting that you have an XR250r from 85. I had a 1982 XR250, but I did a bunch of stuff to it. I swapped the front forks out for CR500 front forks, had the suspension rebuilt (but not overhauled), and rallied it all over. The rear brake aspect of it REALLY sucked, but it would do all the easy stuff no problem. My wr400 is a dream compared to that stuff. Where I used to have to pick lines on the XR, I can just blast through it on the WR400f, as it's combination of suspension and power eats up terrain like no ones business.

 

I used to have Honda XL 185 i loved that bike.
until some sad git stole it did get it back,but had been hand painted black & ripped all seat.sold it onfor parts made my heart ache every time i looked at it in that state.

 

Arguing over performance is utterly pointless unless you take it to the track to back it up. That's all that matters.

 

Ahhhh, but you're missing the point. The track only exemplifies all out capabilities of a bike, and for it to even be a fair test all the riders need to be equal. An SV650 will get beatup all day long even by an F2 at the track... but there's a reason all the magazines are discussing the streetable nature of a torque curve, and in that sense the F2 compares favorably to the F4i.


The F2 surely does not beat the F4i, nor would it at a track. Unfortuntaely for your statement, it beats the F2 at the exact point I've referenced... it pulls harder than the F2 at the top end, and if you keep it up in that range, it will beat the F2.

So yes... A lot happened in 10 or so years of technology. With my current GSXR 750 I wouldn't even consider going back to an F2. However, the F2 compares favorably, and in the all out search for peak power and racing, the F4i gave up some of it's ground to the F2, which isn't all that bad of a bike in the end.

 

So...you're ONLY talking about the streetable nature of the bike and only that aspect? If so, then who really cares unless you're looking for a daily driver?

Racing on Sunday sells bikes on Monday for as long as I can remember. If you run faster times on a stock F4i than on an F2, then that's all that matters. The "all out capabilities" are, in effect, what it comes down to. If the F4i can get around the track faster than the F2 then it wins...no arguments.

It's not just a numbers game either as you said. The F4i has a markedly better suspension (and geometry) and although you can upgrade the F2 with Ohlins, you can do the same with the F4i...but that's sinking money into the bike so it's not stock anymore...something that can make any bike better than any other bike.

And what you said about the SV....all out HP and straight away speed doesn't necessarily matter depending on the track. At TWS, sure, an SV will get out motored. But at a smaller track like GrandSport Speedway, the SV has a bigger advantage than the F2 and would be my choice if I had to put money on it. It's not cut and dry at all.

Point of all that is that it's kind of ridiculous to make such a big deal out of this when your endgame is pretty much undefined. If your point is that the F2 is a better "streetable" bike then...ok...MAYBE it is...but torque curve SHAPE is nearly identical on both bikes but there's about a 3 or 4 ftlb disparity...not that much of a tradeoff for updated ergos, suspension and technology.

 

Who races from a stoplight and shortshifts at 11,000rpm? And not racing around town I shift my f4i at 4k, I highly doubt the f2 is going to go any faster if I also shift it at 4k.
DING. And thats all that needs to be said in this somewhat rediculous [but entertaining] thread

 

Wow, we agree!

The reason why I was so partial to twins (and still am) is because of torque curve...the curve on my 1125R is ridiculous. Power pretty much everywhere.

I am going to literally have to change everything about my track riding on the F4...but it WILL make me a better rider. Can't wait till this weekend to beat this baby up at the track!!!

 

Correct, it's not cut and dry...and at said track where torque matters most for booting out of a turn and needing a wider power band, the F2 will deliver more power than the F4i on said track

My endgame: Surely not that the F2 is superior to the F4i. Does it compare favorably? Why yes, in many places it holds it's own, and with a few relatively inexpensive modifications (counting out modifications to the F4i, as it's initial cost is notably more than that of an F2) you can get comparable performance in many situations (street) and on some particular tracks.


Does it compare beyond that to say... a 600rr? Definitely not even in the same ball game

 

"Stop light to stop light" is a term used by the industry in reference to "streetable" power. You should try picking up a magazine or reading an article online.

Now... as to who short shifts at 11k rpm: An F2 owner wanting to stay in their powerband if you look at the dyno sheet. They get diminishing returns after 11k, so it's best to milk that high point and shift right in that area.

As for your speed in town, that obviously stems from you not knowing an industry standard term. You can have that rediculous () misunderstanding to yourself.