Water Injection
#11
Too easy, Teeks and I ain't even an engineer.
California bearing ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but what does it have to do with water injection
California bearing ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but what does it have to do with water injection
#12
Hueristic,
The use is for supercharged or turbo applications. When you start packing in air/fuel mixtures under high pressures, the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required. Also when compressing the mixture, it raises its temp. and an inter-cooler may be required. The water injection does two things, 1-cools the mixture, 2-acts as an octane booster.
Injecting water into a non-charged engine will produce ill results.
The use is for supercharged or turbo applications. When you start packing in air/fuel mixtures under high pressures, the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required. Also when compressing the mixture, it raises its temp. and an inter-cooler may be required. The water injection does two things, 1-cools the mixture, 2-acts as an octane booster.
Injecting water into a non-charged engine will produce ill results.
#13
Stock compression ratio is 10.5:1
I run 91 octane almost exclusively in my bike. Some people say they can get away running 87 without pinging.
I think I'm with TBT on this. The water injection is necessary for the increased pressures and temps of a supercharged motor but probably wouldn't be effective on a normally aspirated engine.
If it were, wouldn't it already be a common aftermarket add-on for N/A applications?
I do see the advantages of cooling the mixture. Vapor will expand at higher temps and contract at lower temps. Cooling the mixture can pack more fuel/air per cubic inch of volume in the intake mixture, giving you more power. But cooling it too much (dew point) can convert it to a more liquid state potentially causing over-rich and fouling problems. Using a vacuum operated or push-button switching mechanism to apply the water/alky injection for high power demands could give you some boost in power but if that's the case why not just go with juice?
I run 91 octane almost exclusively in my bike. Some people say they can get away running 87 without pinging.
I think I'm with TBT on this. The water injection is necessary for the increased pressures and temps of a supercharged motor but probably wouldn't be effective on a normally aspirated engine.
If it were, wouldn't it already be a common aftermarket add-on for N/A applications?
I do see the advantages of cooling the mixture. Vapor will expand at higher temps and contract at lower temps. Cooling the mixture can pack more fuel/air per cubic inch of volume in the intake mixture, giving you more power. But cooling it too much (dew point) can convert it to a more liquid state potentially causing over-rich and fouling problems. Using a vacuum operated or push-button switching mechanism to apply the water/alky injection for high power demands could give you some boost in power but if that's the case why not just go with juice?
Last edited by wooferdog; 08-17-2012 at 12:09 PM.
#14
the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required.
Water is not compressible, so in effect all you're doing is reducing the "squish" area of your pistons - same as if you took 25 thou off the head - increasing compression and giving you more bang for your buck(s) That's what I'd do - I'm not keen on variable amounts of water in my cylinders at all at all
I'm told that some Mercedes vehicles have water injection but can't be sure of that.
The cheapest form of instant "bang" is still a nitrous conversion - sounds mad, but it's not - the amount of nitrous is infinitely variable, depending on how much "bang" you want. It runs cooler too. We fit them to caravan towcars here and it makes a great addition on the long hills.... and a cylinder the size of a tyre repair kit or can of spraypaint or a sodastream cylinder will fit neatly in front of the CDI unit and give you quite a few "shots"
Water is not compressible, so in effect all you're doing is reducing the "squish" area of your pistons - same as if you took 25 thou off the head - increasing compression and giving you more bang for your buck(s) That's what I'd do - I'm not keen on variable amounts of water in my cylinders at all at all
I'm told that some Mercedes vehicles have water injection but can't be sure of that.
The cheapest form of instant "bang" is still a nitrous conversion - sounds mad, but it's not - the amount of nitrous is infinitely variable, depending on how much "bang" you want. It runs cooler too. We fit them to caravan towcars here and it makes a great addition on the long hills.... and a cylinder the size of a tyre repair kit or can of spraypaint or a sodastream cylinder will fit neatly in front of the CDI unit and give you quite a few "shots"
#15
I knew a guy who drag raced and he had better times on a cool humid Friday night then on a hot low humidity Saturday afternoon.
Converting water to steam in the combustion chamber could net more torque but injecting water into a 10,500 rpm engine is not going to get you steam engine results.
"Hey guys, I've got to stop for water again." simply won't fly with my riding group. Methanol is not sold at the pumps either.
Interesting LINK
#16
Searching for water injection results in diesels with water injection systems to reduce temps due to supercharging.
I knew a guy who drag raced and he had better times on a cool humid Friday night then on a hot low humidity Saturday afternoon.
Converting water to steam in the combustion chamber could net more torque but injecting water into a 10,500 rpm engine is not going to get you steam engine results.
"Hey guys, I've got to stop for water again." simply won't fly with my riding group. Methanol is not sold at the pumps either.
Interesting LINK
I knew a guy who drag raced and he had better times on a cool humid Friday night then on a hot low humidity Saturday afternoon.
Converting water to steam in the combustion chamber could net more torque but injecting water into a 10,500 rpm engine is not going to get you steam engine results.
"Hey guys, I've got to stop for water again." simply won't fly with my riding group. Methanol is not sold at the pumps either.
Interesting LINK
Wouldn't have to stop often for water Tim, 'cause at sea level and 212 F the ratio of water to steam is about 1 to 1600. i.e. 1 pint of water produces 1600 plus pints of steam (water saturated air).
I looked at doing this for my Diesel Landcruiser as I noted how well it went in the thick foggy air we get up here often in winter. The way I was going to do it (probably still will when time allows) is have a small pressure revervoir (for the water), closely wrap copper tubing around the length of one header tube and attach the closest (top) end to the inlet track with a fogger jet. The water in the tubing turns to steam and is self injected (due to the pressure in the closed system) into the airstream entering the combustion chamber. May work??
Personally, I wouldn't do it to my bike though.
Cheers, SB
#17
#18
Yeah, yeah!!! I'd probably work all that out Woof after I detonated the first motor.................
No, I had thought of a pop off valve. As ususal, too many projects/jobs/PhD's to finish to get this one to the drawing board just yet. ( I did just buy a lovely binocular dissecting microscope though )
Cheers, SB
#19
see above.
Too easy, Teeks and I ain't even an engineer.
California bearing ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but what does it have to do with water injection
California bearing ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but what does it have to do with water injection
Well I got her registered today and put about 50 miles on her. She's weak and that's more than likely the low compression. I'd hoped the low compression was valve sealing issue from carbon buildup. I'm still not sure I've got all the carbon out though. I may do a seafoam douche. But at least she didn't leave me on the side of the road today!
baby steps.
#20
Hueristic,
The use is for supercharged or turbo applications. When you start packing in air/fuel mixtures under high pressures, the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required. Also when compressing the mixture, it raises its temp. and an inter-cooler may be required. The water injection does two things, 1-cools the mixture, 2-acts as an octane booster.
Injecting water into a non-charged engine will produce ill results.
The use is for supercharged or turbo applications. When you start packing in air/fuel mixtures under high pressures, the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required. Also when compressing the mixture, it raises its temp. and an inter-cooler may be required. The water injection does two things, 1-cools the mixture, 2-acts as an octane booster.
Injecting water into a non-charged engine will produce ill results.
And the (I'll add this to your list) 3- acts as compression increaser (yeah not really a word but suffices) thing it does may well come in handy for a low compression engine.
Stock compression ratio is 10.5:1
I run 91 octane almost exclusively in my bike. Some people say they can get away running 87 without pinging.
I think I'm with TBT on this. The water injection is necessary for the increased pressures and temps of a supercharged motor but probably wouldn't be effective on a normally aspirated engine.
If it were, wouldn't it already be a common aftermarket add-on for N/A applications?
I do see the advantages of cooling the mixture. Vapor will expand at higher temps and contract at lower temps. Cooling the mixture can pack more fuel/air per cubic inch of volume in the intake mixture, giving you more power. But cooling it too much (dew point) can convert it to a more liquid state potentially causing over-rich and fouling problems. Using a vacuum operated or push-button switching mechanism to apply the water/alky injection for high power demands could give you some boost in power but if that's the case why not just go with juice?
I run 91 octane almost exclusively in my bike. Some people say they can get away running 87 without pinging.
I think I'm with TBT on this. The water injection is necessary for the increased pressures and temps of a supercharged motor but probably wouldn't be effective on a normally aspirated engine.
If it were, wouldn't it already be a common aftermarket add-on for N/A applications?
I do see the advantages of cooling the mixture. Vapor will expand at higher temps and contract at lower temps. Cooling the mixture can pack more fuel/air per cubic inch of volume in the intake mixture, giving you more power. But cooling it too much (dew point) can convert it to a more liquid state potentially causing over-rich and fouling problems. Using a vacuum operated or push-button switching mechanism to apply the water/alky injection for high power demands could give you some boost in power but if that's the case why not just go with juice?
the compression pressures increase and higher octane is required.
Water is not compressible, so in effect all you're doing is reducing the "squish" area of your pistons - same as if you took 25 thou off the head - increasing compression and giving you more bang for your buck(s) That's what I'd do - I'm not keen on variable amounts of water in my cylinders at all at all
I'm told that some Mercedes vehicles have water injection but can't be sure of that.
The cheapest form of instant "bang" is still a nitrous conversion - sounds mad, but it's not - the amount of nitrous is infinitely variable, depending on how much "bang" you want. It runs cooler too. We fit them to caravan towcars here and it makes a great addition on the long hills.... and a cylinder the size of a tyre repair kit or can of spraypaint or a sodastream cylinder will fit neatly in front of the CDI unit and give you quite a few "shots"
Water is not compressible, so in effect all you're doing is reducing the "squish" area of your pistons - same as if you took 25 thou off the head - increasing compression and giving you more bang for your buck(s) That's what I'd do - I'm not keen on variable amounts of water in my cylinders at all at all
I'm told that some Mercedes vehicles have water injection but can't be sure of that.
The cheapest form of instant "bang" is still a nitrous conversion - sounds mad, but it's not - the amount of nitrous is infinitely variable, depending on how much "bang" you want. It runs cooler too. We fit them to caravan towcars here and it makes a great addition on the long hills.... and a cylinder the size of a tyre repair kit or can of spraypaint or a sodastream cylinder will fit neatly in front of the CDI unit and give you quite a few "shots"
Searching for water injection results in diesels with water injection systems to reduce temps due to supercharging.
I knew a guy who drag raced and he had better times on a cool humid Friday night then on a hot low humidity Saturday afternoon.
Converting water to steam in the combustion chamber could net more torque but injecting water into a 10,500 rpm engine is not going to get you steam engine results.
"Hey guys, I've got to stop for water again." simply won't fly with my riding group. Methanol is not sold at the pumps either.
Interesting LINK
I knew a guy who drag raced and he had better times on a cool humid Friday night then on a hot low humidity Saturday afternoon.
Converting water to steam in the combustion chamber could net more torque but injecting water into a 10,500 rpm engine is not going to get you steam engine results.
"Hey guys, I've got to stop for water again." simply won't fly with my riding group. Methanol is not sold at the pumps either.
Interesting LINK
Wouldn't have to stop often for water Tim, 'cause at sea level and 212 F the ratio of water to steam is about 1 to 1600. i.e. 1 pint of water produces 1600 plus pints of steam (water saturated air).
I looked at doing this for my Diesel Landcruiser as I noted how well it went in the thick foggy air we get up here often in winter. The way I was going to do it (probably still will when time allows) is have a small pressure revervoir (for the water), closely wrap copper tubing around the length of one header tube and attach the closest (top) end to the inlet track with a fogger jet. The water in the tubing turns to steam and is self injected (due to the pressure in the closed system) into the airstream entering the combustion chamber. May work??
Personally, I wouldn't do it to my bike though.
Cheers, SB
I looked at doing this for my Diesel Landcruiser as I noted how well it went in the thick foggy air we get up here often in winter. The way I was going to do it (probably still will when time allows) is have a small pressure revervoir (for the water), closely wrap copper tubing around the length of one header tube and attach the closest (top) end to the inlet track with a fogger jet. The water in the tubing turns to steam and is self injected (due to the pressure in the closed system) into the airstream entering the combustion chamber. May work??
Personally, I wouldn't do it to my bike though.
Cheers, SB
I have already thought of this as well as a plethora of other factors I am weighing. Pretty much why I started this thread. To see what your guys thoughts were on it. I will think hard on this before implementing it. I never jump into sketchy **** without forethought.
Yeah, yeah!!! I'd probably work all that out Woof after I detonated the first motor.................
No, I had thought of a pop off valve. As ususal, too many projects/jobs/PhD's to finish to get this one to the drawing board just yet. ( I did just buy a lovely binocular dissecting microscope though )
Cheers, SB
No, I had thought of a pop off valve. As ususal, too many projects/jobs/PhD's to finish to get this one to the drawing board just yet. ( I did just buy a lovely binocular dissecting microscope though )
Cheers, SB