[&:]

 

Hi Connor, I'd probably change the damper as theyre a bit of a weak point anyroad, although the spoke method might change youre mind about it if you get the hang of it.
I tried examining my damper closely first time around, and could not detect any wear in it- to my cost, cause I was wrong, and put it back in, for it to fail straight after a full rebuild!!
What I think gives a misleading symptom is that you get the impression that the starter is only turning slowly, and the engine wont fire.
I believe that the starter is turning at the correct speed, but the damper is slipping, so allowing the engine crank speed to be too low.
Its an interesting problem, but I cant think of any other explanations.
Anyway, enjoy it while it lasts!
Have Fun
Druncs

 

Posting this for Kaska, who's battling to post :
Damn the forum. of Mozilla or whatever
I wrote a post to conor how to check the damper but it never went online somehow:S

Well i do a short briefing then

Q: How do i know if the damper is worn???????...
A: When starting the engine the starter works and does noise, but the engine wont start. - one way is to remove the cylinder head cover and when starting the engine the camshafts should be turning - if they are turning very slowly and on very variable speed you probably have problems with your damper.
The starter damper is there because the crankshaft is connected to alternator shaft via chain. To have security there must be a clutch. Imagine what could happen if the alternator rotor jams for some reason - the crankshaft would be seriously injured if there would not be clutch. The damper itself is pretty common wet clutch system with spring loaded friction and metal plates. Now when starting the engine and the damper is wore out the clutch just slips when the compression in cylinder gets higher and when it slips the crankshaft will not turn fast enough to start the engine.

Deeply investigating the damper:

As the damper is just ordinary wet clutch you can open it and have a look it's situation.
You can see the damper http://web.zone.ee/kaspar10/CBR/pages/IMG_6287.htm now there is a splint - which you can remove with nippers. Inside the damper there are one thick plate - springs and some metal and friction plates http://web.zone.ee/kaspar10/CBR/pages/IMG_6300.htm
Now you can investigate the situation of the plates. Are there scratches or are the metal plates already turned into blue - like they are doing in gearbox clutch system. Some scratches you can see on my plates http://web.zone.ee/kaspar10/CBR/pages/IMG_6315.htm

Fixing the damper:

Well easiest way is to buy a new one

Cheapest way:
*change the order of plates so that the plates that used to go together side by side arent anymore - so the scratches wont match anymore and you gain some friction.
* Get thicker Thick plate - that can be hard and might need some skills in field of metal.
* add washer to improve the pressure - as the plates are pressured together with spring - you can add washer there to add some pressure.
* there are may ways more to do this , but it will never be as good as new one so there really is no point.
I made one new damper out of two old ones by comparing the plates and chose out the best ones

Now the warning - DO NOT open the damper if you think you can't get it back togehter ( of course if you buy a new one this dosent matter) - Opening the damper is easy - getting it back together is a bitch!

Well this post turned out a lot shorter than the one that disappeared but i hope i didn't forget anything

 

Thanks Kaska (+Shadow) for spending the time to write this out.
I don't have this problem .... and hope I never will[:@][&:]but your explanation helped me understand more of the function of the starter clutch damper - many thanks.

Also your practical suggestions and warnings from personal experience are much appreciated.

Now to your photos..... I'm pissed off! I can never get photos that good!!!![:-][:-]

(Seriously Kaska - love your skill and work! Just jealous.)

 

Hello,
1991 CBR1000F (I have verified the VIN# on the motor as a 1991)
I have been trying to replace the alternator dampener/starter clutch and have moved the ratcheting tensioned adjuster for the starter chain and can not seem to retract it,

I have read the forms and tried to find the 'Paw" to release the tension but cant find it (http://www.stu.co.nz/cbr1000fix/)
and
(Vhttps://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Up_4TtRSvEMJ:http://www.home-business-host.com/im...5LwgxrmiX979RA).

I have read that some of the ratcheting tension bars do not release once extended is this true? I have also read in order to reset the ajuster i need to drop the motor and split the case ( could do prefer to find another way)
any help would be greatly appreciated

I have included pics of what i have encountered

http://s102.photobucket.com/user/Roy_Gorman/library/

http://s102.photobucket.com/user/Roy_Gorman/library/?view=recent

html
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s102.photobucket.com/user/Roy_Gorman/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>

flash
<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed102.photobucke t.com%2Falbums%2Fm107%2FRoy_Gorman%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="javascript:void(0);" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" /></a><a href="http://s102.photobucket.com/user/Roy_Gorman/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" alt="Roy_Gorman's album on Photobucket" /></a></div>

Help me Obi wan your my only hope.
Thank you in advance for any information you my have.

Roy Gorman
New London Ct
USA
roygorman@gmail.com

https://www.facebook.com/home.php

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roy+gorman

 

Read -> This

It may answer some questions.

Edit: Then read-> This

 

Ok, I think I understand your problem - but post here if I'm on the right track Roachking.

TimBucTwo has put up the two threads you need - the second in particular.

The photos you took inside the engine are superb so I have borrowed and modified one to show you just where to stick the wire (about 2 to 2.5mm) to release the PAWL to drop the alternator chain tensioner.



and.......................



Between your photo and the second below it you can SEE the ratchet teeth on the tensioner (inside the spring) - near the red line in the top photo.

You need to release the pawl that locks into those teeth. The green line in the second photo shows WHERE you have to insert the wire. Press down on the wire to press down on the BACK of the pawl thus lifting it off the teeth of the tensioner slide. Do it from the front opening (where you removed the alternator) first because to reassembly you are going to have to do it from the opening that houses the rear alternator shaft nut .

Let us know how you go.

Cheers, SB

 

Just found this which I posted a while ago which may help as an explainer as well - from the original thread about the 'spoke method'.

There is a how to for the alternator clutch replacement that I did that is in the How To section that briefly explains it. However, in my excitement of actually getting it to work on the second night of fiddling I failed to take any pictures.

Here's the best way of explaining (well mine anyway). Looking into the alternator aperture you have the (from the back) bearing, then the alternator damper with the alternator chain over in and angling down to the left (toward the crank). The lower section of that chain has the ward pressure from the tensioner. You can actually see the tensioner with a torch and peering down to the left.

On the side of the tensioner slider, closest to the left hand side of the bike are the teeth for the pawl to engage. The pawl pressure is on releasing the teeth thus lowering the slider, releasing the pressure on the chain. I found that (from memory) 2.4 mm brass rod worked best for the next bit. The pawl swivels so that by pressing on the back of it, it releases the slider. There isn't a 'hole' as mentioned, it is the gap between the back of the pawl and the tensioner body.

If you go in from the front to start with, bend the rod with a 1 inch bend so that you can press down on it at right angles from bottom of the chain.

The gap behind the pawl, you will be pressing the rod into is 1/4 inch or so out from the slider towards the LHS of the bike. When you press down, the rod lifts the pawl, releases the tensioner slider, and if left there (in the interim) allows hassle free refitting of the alternator shaft.

When you can do it from the front, then bend your wire in such a way it comes in from the starter hole, over/forward the alternator damper/chain and into the pawl gap. Leave it there while everything is refitted then Voilą remove it.


From the thread https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-1000f...-damper-96059/

Cheers, SB

 

So very HAPPY! cant get to it today but as soon as i do i will send a post here. Thank you Sebastionbear and TimBuctwo I was was pretty sure thier was a way but did not want to break something or drop anything into the case buy wing nutting it. I can now proceed with a better understanding.

the guys at the shop keep asking me why I don't buy a new bike..
the same reason I don't get a new wife...I like this one!

 

Well it took some time for me to get back in the garage but once I did it was a short build time thanks to you guys TimBucTwo and Sebastionbear! I was able to bend a welding rod and release the tensioner the rest of the assembly went smooth and in 1 hour I was back in the wind chewing up the road with gusto! Thank you all so very Much!

A special thanks to Sebastionbear for a previously posted question about installing the new engine (last year)and routing of the water pump cylinder head line!