there is no need to throw a knee like that when changing lanes.. just use counter steering. but it helps adjust your center of gravity and your weight to the inside to prevent the inertia (sp?) from throwing you off the bike. wind plays no role in it

 

In all seriousness, from what I've always understood, the top 5%-ers actually use the knee as an angle guage on cornering. They are using it to judge when they are going as fast into the corners as the edge of the tire will allow. These guys are trying to pick-up hundreths (even thousandths) of a sec on every point on the track, so it has actual meaning to over-all track time. If you watch closely they seldom vary from the same point on any individual point of the track by more than fractions of an inch (allowing for other racer positions, of course). Fastest track times are achieved by consistancy on every point on the course, so you have to know where you've been to adjust to where you want to be.

Ern

 

This video is pretty deceptive.

The reason he is able to flick the bike quicker has nothing to do with his knee. When you tuck in your arms are at a more harsh angle to the steering column which gives you more leverage to push the bars easier, thus turning faster.

Knee out does not help you with turning. Body position does. You can lean off the bike and keep your knee in, having the same effect. If the knee offers any bit of wind resistance to aid in the turn, it is such a small fraction that it goes unnoticed.

The knee out is used for control and feel. Some good riders can actually hold the bike up with their knee when its about to slide out. Its also a feeler, to let you know how far over you are.

So...

Flick faster? forearms parallel to the ground. (also, gas off, weighted front turns faster)

Lean farther? Get off the bike, keep spine in line with the bike. head should be where mirrors are and your crack should be on the corner of the seat. Weight should be on outside peg.

Go faster? Use above tips + be smooth on the throttle. Gas off+brake before entry. Increase to neutral throttle on entry. (neutral throttle is cracking it open just a hair) Roll on gently at apex up to wide open on exit.

 

Found it in Total Control on page 80:
So according to Parks, having your knee out does help with turns. But I'm asking is it really a matter of using the wind resistance (or air pressure as he says), a matter of CoG which throwing out your knee changes, both or something completely different?

It was the first explanation I'd ever seen for it. Now some of y'all have offered new ones (gauge to measure lean angle, a physical stop / pivot point when it contacts the ground). So it definitely IS NOT just for looks, except on the street. Which I'm not talking about here

 

Watch Randy DePuniet

I put up the video as kind of a joke... I don't really think there's ever really a need to get a knee out on the public road besides looking cool/cooling your giblets.

I don't think you can really bring up MotoGP racers because they're really not even hanging their knees out, their lean angle is just that serious. When I did corner hard and did the occasional knee-out thing, I did it because I was using my other inner thigh as an anchor and literally just hanging off the bike with about an even ratio of weighting on the vertical (pressure on the seat) as the horizontal (pressure on the gas tank). It was more of a balancing act that included having a knee out in order to distribute my weight just right... for some reason this method made my bike feel more stable mid-corner.

 

Best advice so far. Concentrate on these things first people (once you've got correct body position worked out) then the knee out thing will naturally happen as your speed increases. And like everyone has been saying, at the track.

 

I think people are kinda missing the point.

I'm not trying to look cool on the streets. I already do wearing my gear and riding an immaculate bike
I'm not trying to force a knee drag. I already know that will happen on its own if the turn requires it

I'm positive there is a definitive reason for racers putting their knee out. It does assist in turning in some manner. I'm looking for the reason to better understand the physics involved.

 

Ever done lunges at the gym? Try balancing yourself off the end of a bike which is a muscle twitch away from disintegrating. Want a great example? Take a look at my man Stacey Coner, as he exits a corner he throws himself further over the edge and juices the gas. This causes the bike to get out of the corner faster, but also causes him to come over the top in a half high side. That guy has a "moment" in every corner, simply because he pushes the machine so hard. How else do you think he won all those races on the Duck? Even Flossy can't do it!

If you think it has anything to do with the wind, you need to go ride the rubber off a bike on a track. The wind is simply a bi-product, an annoyance.

As for gauging the lean angle, I suppose it would be possible, but I have never heard of it. Seems to me you only need to know how fast you can go through the turn without ending up on your ****.

 

The physics are more involved on body positioning than the knee being anywhere. If the knee out applies to CoG or wind resistance it is very minimal, and not even noticeable.

Here is an example... On the track I go to there is a straight where you get up to about 150 and need to brake hard down to 70. I will sit up, lean over to the left and hang a knee out to create wind resistance on my chest and knee to aid in braking. In doing this, I do not feel ANY sort of pull to the left due to wind resistance. It might be there, but i don't feel it even at 150mph.

The knee isn't the key to good riding... next time you get out on your bike kuroshio do a small test. 1st just stay center of the seat, stick a knee out (do not slide over) and make your turn. I'm wiling to bet you feel no difference. Next time, just slide your body a few inches into the turn, get your head lower, and put your weight on the outside foot peg. (left turn = body hangs left, head closer to left mirror, right foot supports whole body weight)

You don't have to be drastic to feel the difference. Don't hang fully off on the street... just shift your weight a bit into the turn and weight the opposite peg. You will feel a giant difference. You will notice that you needed to lean your bike over far less, yet were able to take the turn at the same speed as before.

 

The answer I got for this is quite different, since the knee out won't change a thing. The important part is body position, and the torso should be looking deep into the turn. as keith code (IIRC) put it, kiss the mirror.

when you have you body turned sideways so much keeping both knee on the tank is possible,but for most of the people not very comfortable. if you allow your inner knee to turn into the turn along with your body, you will feel less "twisted around" legs and waist facing forward and upper body sideways.

and riding in 100F I know all about cooling the important area, but not while hanging off the bike in a turn !