General Tech Good at troubleshooting? Have a non specific issue? Discuss general tech topics here.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

CBR600f 2002 sputtering

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #31  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:29 AM
CaBaRet's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Lancs ,UK
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 89cbrback2life
hey guys, maybe you can help me out with this matter, it is driving crazy. Where are my mixture screws located on my 1989 cbr 600F. my bike is a pain to warm up. Im trying to adjust them but i dont wanna drill a hole in my carb without knowing for sure....thank you
Hi , maybe should have started your own thread , but here are the mixture/pilot screws, they should be set at factory ,if not use your manual for settings
 
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Capture2.pdf (242.6 KB, 68 views)
  #32  
Old 01-22-2017, 06:47 PM
ceebeeaarguy's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dorset
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Bit of an update on the problem.
The bike didn't start this time despite trying the WOT method so
I took it all apart this weekend. To begin with I unseated the throttle bodies , and then took the the fuel rail off. I checked the injectors as per haynes. The resistance across the terminals was 10.9 Ohms for all the injectors which is not far from the least of 11 Ohms as per haynes. The injector wiring connectors also checked for continuity to earth and they seemed to be ok. I couldn't check the wiring connectors for voltage across the terminals(this should be battery voltage) as I had disconnected most wiring so will check this later.
Since the bike didn't start I couldn't check for the clicking sound from the injectors in operation.

After this, I checked the ECT and IAT and the resistance was all within spec. Didn't check the MAP sensor, will see how to go about it.Bear in mind though, I never had any FI code thrown at me by the ecm, just checking because in the hope I find a smoking gun or preempt a future problem.

After the above I took the fast idle wax unit off the starter valve shaft. When I started having the problem of autochoke not working, I was almost sure the wax unit was not working. I am not 100% sure now to be honest. Taking the wax unit apart was a pain as the 3 screws holding the two parts of the case together as well as the 2 which attach it to the throttle body gave me a tough time and have sheared now.These were quadrex screws and I always hate them. They can't be reused surely. I cleaned the unit although wasn't really all that dirty, tested the wax for expansion and it does(kept in fridge then used a hairdryer to throw hot air on it), though I should have actually checked it's operation while attached to the throttle body to see how the starter valves open/close with the movement of the push rod on the wax unit. May be when I put it on?

I also noticed the vacuum line connector which goes to the scottoiler is cracked which would explain the scottoiler not working properly for some time now but not for as long as the cold idle problem though! Too many things for my brain really Could a possible vacuum leak be in anyway connected to the symptoms. I donot have any issues once warmed up btw.

Next up was checking the valve clearance. Took the plugs and valve cover off
The plugs were all sooty in less than 500 miles and not sure I can reuse them? I noticed that there is some white gooey substance on the inside of the valve cover. Removed the timing cover to bring the 1st cylinder to TDC and notice the same white gooey substance dripping with the oil. I have attached pictures-
Is this gas?
Also some black sooty stuff on the cam cover. Is it something sinister guys or is normal?This is the first time I have seen the inside of an engine this close so...I definitely need to do an oil change before I try starting it.Checked the clearances and the intakes are off , the exhaust valves are largely within spec. I will now have to take the cam cover off and see what shims I'd need.Could the cold idle problem be due to off spec valve clearances?

Apart from the above, is there any other way of checking the injectors guys? Any way to confirm if an injector was stuck open?
What's the correct way of checking clearances? On some of the valves I could slide a thicker gauge with a bit of pressure and wiggling. How forceful we need to be with the gauges. Should it be a very tight fit or we should take it easy?
Do I need to take the starter valves out as well? Is there a way to check or service them ? Or should I just get the valve clearances in spec, sync the throttle bodies and see how it goes?
Also do you know how to replace the the two screws which hold the upper part of the wax unit to the throttle body? Don't see a part number for that(as well as the upper part of the wax unit).

Honda Motorcycle Parts 2002 CBR600F4 A THROTTLE BODY Diagram

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_002.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_003.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_006.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_008.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_009.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_010.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_017.jpg

CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170122_020.jpg


Sorry for the long post guys but this thing is eating me alive now, so evil !
 

Last edited by ceebeeaarguy; 01-22-2017 at 07:03 PM.
  #33  
Old 01-22-2017, 06:53 PM
ceebeeaarguy's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dorset
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by PossibleOne
Check intake boots again. Hows your coolant? In regards to the wax unit and such all that was clean and clear? Hate to beat a dead horse but eliminating the FPR I keep wanting to lead back to the bodies/ idle unit. The cold start issue could be related to that possibly giving us a sign about it giving you trouble at cold starts. Did you ever verify the starter valve was doing its job. Get the idle adjustment sorted (since this relates to the idle unit and in affect idling and the starter valve. Pull out your hanyes and see what they say regarding those valves and being synced. Maybe something got knocked loose when you were installing? Really would be nice to get a vaccum test the money sucks but sometimes it is what it is..Maybe you could sell it to a mate if you needed to? Not sure on the DIY one...let us know if you go that route.
Thanks again for your suggestions.
Someone at work has offered to lend me his morgan carbtune but can't use it till I get the clearances sorted and put it all back together. Thinking of getting a new wax unit nonetheless and see how it goes.
Warm idle btw was never the problem. Once warmed up it'll hold the idle properly and is adjustable as well.
 
  #34  
Old 01-23-2017, 01:41 AM
CaBaRet's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Lancs ,UK
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Hi, generally the white goo that is in the oil is water, but that could be heavy condensation, the right thing to do is what you are doing, check the valve clearances before you can do a sync, you should feel resistance on the feeler gauge as you drag it through, remember to rotate the engine in the right direction when moving between valves, how does the cylinder head gasket look, and how was the compression test
 
  #35  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:01 PM
ceebeeaarguy's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dorset
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Damn, can't believe I am still at it lol. The parts finally arrived last week and since I can only work on the bike on weekends progress has been slow. I have replaced the shims and the cam cover has gone back in. I have only tightened them to 10 Nm and not till the 12 Nm spec. Reason for that is , well I goofed up a little. I had squeezed some kitchen paper towel in the spark plug holes to prevent something falling into the engine. But while tightening the cam cover bolts,I wasn't careful and some small amount of the paper has been stuck between the mating surface of the cam cover and head. What do you think guys. Do I need to take the cam cover off and do it again or it'd be OK given it's very soft kitchen paper towel? I personally think it'd be fine torquing it to the spec but don't want to end up with a cracked cover or cam shaft.
 
  #36  
Old 02-22-2017, 05:54 PM
ceebeeaarguy's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dorset
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Solved it!

So I finally did it last weekend. It's all working again! And @PossibleOne was right. It indeed was a vaccum line issue. I was more or less on a witch hunt all along, but the good thing is a lot of other stuff is fixed as a result as well lol.
So if someone takes the trouble to read through my last two posts this is what I wrote-

I also noticed the vacuum line connector which goes to the scottoiler is cracked which would explain the scottoiler not working properly for some time now but not for as long as the cold idle problem though! Too many things for my brain really Could a possible vacuum leak be in anyway connected to the symptoms. I donot have any issues once warmed up btw.

This was my problem. The scottoiler draws on the vaccum from the throttle body vaccum tubes and is connected to it by cutting one of the tubes and using a 3 way splitter. The scottoil tube connecting to this splitter was cracked at the head and was leaking vaccum.
It all makes sense now. I started having this problem shortly after the CCT installment and would get bit more worse each time I open the tank up to do some stuff(after the CCT change I installed a new air filter and then again later O rings on the funnels and air box). Each time I'd squeeze or twist the tubes to gain access and the crack would grow a bit more as a result, exacerbating the problem. I thought of removing the scottoiler but decided to
just use some superglue and sealant and it's working fine. If I get the problem again, I'd get rid of it and replace all vaccum tubing as did notice some small cracks at some of the tube heads.

So these are the stuff I ended up doing on the bike in all-
1)valve clearances-all withing spec now
2)balanced throttle bodies(used morgan carbtune-neat device)
3)changed the wax unit and all o rings in it.
4)replaced all orings and spacers on the injetcors
5)changed the fpr
6)changed spark plugs(later cleaned and reused after the last fouling episode )
7)Changed oil and filter-use a cheap oil to use for a few days as a flush and will go for Motul 300V soon.
8)got led indicators installed

I did buy a lot of stuff to replace some old/rusty parts. Many screws and nuts etc and of course shims(£40 for 7 shims from the Honda dealer )
Besides lot of tools which I didn't have like low value torque wrench, oil filter socket,voltmeter,compression tester,gauges, assembly compound and what not, seriously lost count.

I now notice the idle is very smooth plus the exhaust note is a bit different and sounds very, umm, settled..as in a continuous thrumming sound.It used to be a bit hesitant before?
Just one thing which I noted. There is a slight ticking noise, presumably from the valves after it warms up. I'd drain the cheap oil and pour in some motul and see how it goes.
 
Attached Thumbnails CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170219_005.jpg   CBR600f 2002 sputtering-wp_20170219_001.jpg  

Last edited by ceebeeaarguy; 03-15-2017 at 05:29 PM.
  #37  
Old 03-06-2017, 07:30 PM
ceebeeaarguy's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Dorset
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I have now drained the cheap oil and in went Motul 300V 10W40. What a difference-class apart. The bike is so much smooth and quite now. Gear shifts are much improved, especially the neutral to 1st thud is lot more acceptable now and the ticking is very minimal as well.
Btw the 'cheap' oil I used briefly was Westway semisynth 10W40 4T.
 

Last edited by ceebeeaarguy; 03-15-2017 at 05:30 PM.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
John24ssj
F4i - Main Forum
11
08-14-2017 09:07 AM
wizadore
General Tech
2
08-11-2016 05:54 AM
jk_on_cbr
CBR 600F2
7
05-26-2006 02:35 PM
Versatilx1
CBR 600F2
5
04-28-2006 02:55 AM
spoonher
CBR 929RR
8
03-12-2006 07:31 PM



Quick Reply: CBR600f 2002 sputtering



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 AM.