Hi, few days ago my starter stoped starting the engine without the clutch pulled in, today it won't start (starter doesn't spin) even when I pull in the clutch. It only works when the kick-stand is pulled in and the clutch is pulled in too... What is wrong here ?

Thanks in advance Cheers from Lithuania
The video: YouTube - VIDEO0365.mp4

 

Khafros - first off - HUGE PROPS TO YOU for posting that video to help with troubleshooting. Seriously - that might be "Best First Post" ever on this forum. I wish more people would do that sort of thing instead of posting up nothing more than "My bike won't start."

I'm gonna have to think about this one a bit, and look at the wiring diagram.

things we know - Battery is fine, headlamp circuit is fine, starter switch is fine. bike does start and run normally, only if clutch and stand are up.

Lemme stare @ the wiring diagram for a bit and see what I come up with.

 

Seems like a gounding or a safety switch somewhere, but the starter circuit is all convoluted.

do me one favor - verify the bike is in neutral. I know the green light is lit on the dash, but you didn't let the clutch out while the bike was running. If you have a faulty neutral indicator switch, and the bike was in gear, It would act exactly like what is happening now. Even with clutch pulled in, with the stand down and bike in gear, it won't crank.

Right now - I'm leaning toward this might be the main diode could possibly have gone bad.

 

Sounds like the neutral safety switch?

 

Dagon - It's going to be one of those. Both the NSS and the Clutch are tied into the Clutch switch diode. The ignition module has to see ground on either the wire running in from the Clutch Switch diode, or the sidestand.

Khafros - try one other thing too - try starting the bike, no clutch, but with the sidestand up.

Check your ground at the main chassis harness, and at the starter relay switch - if either of these are off or loose - it could be causing this problem. The ignition is having to "find" ground from different sources.

 

Lol sorry I took my time writing mine in between call of duty matches so your post wasn't up. But great job with your post I learned stuff I didn't know from it

 

The bike is 100% in neutral.
I tried to start with side stand up and NO clutch, but it won't start.
After a few minutes of hitting every switch on a bike (NSS, Clutch switch on the handle, side stand switch) it started normally (no clutch, side stand down). It happened only once.
Could you specify what 'main chassis harness' is and where it is on a bike (sorry my english isn't great in terminology ).

 

Ok- here's the wiring diagram that is the easiest to follow if there's a problem in the safety switch wiring:



I might need to add some arrows, but what all of the safety circuits are doing is passing ground from the G/V wire to the Lg wire. With the weird nature that your problem is having I'm beginngin to think your ICM isn't grounded properly, or has a internal problem with providing ground on the G/V wire. I can't find a good troubleshooting guide that explains the pin-out on the ICM to tell me under what conditions there might not be a ground on the G/W wire coming out of the unit.

I think I'm going to us my MS paint skills to kinda map out the scenarios that are required for normal operation vs the abnormal operation you've been seeing, to the best of my understanding.

 

I can't get my head around this one. Half the problem is mechanical (the starter relay not tripping at all) half appears to be the ICM's interaction with the wring harness. It all points to the ICM not acting properly at times.

I'd check the ICM ground - should be near the R/R - that's the main chassis harness ground.

also check the connectors for the starter relay, make sure everything is secure and not corroded.

Might pull the ICM harness out as well, check for signs of corrosion or anything (melting, broken wires, etc) .

this might just be a gremlin that is hard to chase until it gets more consistent in nature or something quits working altogether.

 

adrenalnjunky, he's having a Starter problem, not an Ingnition problem. The circuit you're showing doesn't have the Starter circuits. The bike runs fine if he starts it.

Looking at the circuit I've posted below and watching your video (excellent job by the way) I think it comes down to 2 possible things.

• A bad Clutch Switch Diode (item #4)
• A bad connection on the G/R (Green/Red) wire between the Clutch Switch Diode (item #4) and the Starter Relay Switch (item #7)

How far back you'll have to trace the wiring from the Clutch Switch Diode to the Starter Relay Switch depends on where Honda decided to split the G/R wire between the Clutch Switch Diode and the Clutch Switch (item #12).

We know that the G/R wire from the Starter Relay Switch (item #7) to the Clutch Switch (item #7) is good because when the Side Stand Switch (item #8) is in the UP position, and the Clutch Lever (not shown) is pulled in, the Clutch Switch (item #7) closes and completes the circuit for the Starter Relay Switch and the bike starts.

When the Side Stand Switch is in the DOWN position, it removes the Clutch Switch circuit entirely.

We know that the Neutral Switch (item #9) is working and that half of the Clutch Switch Diode is good because the Neutral Indicator is illuminated.

That only leaves the Clutch Switch Diode (half of it anyway) and the G/R wire that leads to it.

I'd start with the simple thing first and check the connection on the Clutch Switch Diode. It's got a 3 pronged connector on it and it's wrapped in tape. It's located on the right side of the bike along the frame near the carburetors.