Conrice - I definitely see the difference now. Thank you!!

JohnnyRocket - You have a very good point. I actually did consider a rebuild, I know that I would enjoy it as I always like tinkering in the garage and learning new things. (I gotta call around and find out the pricing for getting the boring/cutting done..) Also I miss riding like crazy. But maybe that's my punishment for making a ****ty buying choice

Jaybird180 - Sorry ..

So to update, the seller did give me a full refund but told me to keep the engine as the shipping would be too high. So now I have two dead f4i engines sitting in my garage not sure where to go from this point.. Thank you everyone for the replies, really highly appreciated. U guys are so knowledgeable ;-;

 

Sounds like destined to rebuild. BOTH!!!
Tear down both use best parts R&R them and rebuild yours to factory spec min mods.
Ball-hone cylinders not bore(it just cleans them like new. Dip head and maybe minimal dremel work on ports. Exhaust smooth mirrorlike, and intake 'rough/bumpy but smooth', remove any casting leftovers.. Rering.. Clean each and every part to new condition. new crush-bearings and gaskets. I can teach you a trick that's so simple you will LYFAO for machining the valves with great outcome.
Do what's called 'B&B' Balance and Blueprinting.
Making the engine to factory engineer specs.
You'll be surprised the all around performance bump. (Albeit personally, I feel Honda is the Best at giving the customer an engine the closest to a BB engine, than ANY OTHER manufacturer in the world.)
Tear it down to every single part and rebuild... THEN.. 1wk later.. (as for the 1st week after engine is back in bike all you'll want to do is ride all day.. lol)
You start to build your monster using the rest of the parts..
Where you go nuts like boring 130 over right to the water jackets then a nicsel-sleeve. lighter pistons and rods. rebalance crank lightening it by drilling the lobes, Shorter lift longer duration cams to raise the RPM 2k or so widening pwr band.
Between the 2 engines you should be able to rebuild yours to spec fairly cheap. Just alotta R&R parts and replace disposables like rings, gaskets, crush bearings, etc.
Important is.
1-Patience. at time you will be frustrated. chill.
2-Pics Both teardown and rebuild take a pic of every part before and after removal. Take Too Many Pics.. Go nuts..
3- Labeling/organizing. EGG CARTENS.. You can label on them. The small cup are great for lil parts and flip it over the lid holds larger parts. And a milk crate nicely stores your Egg cartons. Also label your parts 1 &2 For your eng. #1 and the Junkyard Eng #2. If given a choice between 2 parts appear same condition, use the #1 part as you know its not been ravaged by atmo. (Black Sharpie, or use 2 different colors 1 for each engine) Label Everything and store the parts with some kind of order you wont forget.
4- FACTORY SHOP MANUAL. It has specs on EVERYTHING. Best to take it to Kinkos or the like and have them 'Spiral-Bound' it, also copy it and have each page sleeved in those vinyl/plastic sleeves then set in 3 3ring binders (1-Mechanical, 2-Electric &Fluids, 3-Chassis &Body) this way with your dirty hands you can flip through the book and wipe the pages clean after. Or with clean hands you can easily roll through the spiral bound book and roll it open to the page you need to save(also easy if need to copy a page(diagram, chart, etc) with a spiral binding over the glue one) I think Kinkos last time charged me $28 to do both in 3-days.(mostly was the cost of the sleeves.
5-Patience.. No SHORTCUTS.. Not yet. They are only for AFTER you have successfully done the long-cuts. (maybe use a low torque battery nut driver to run the nuts and bolts in/out after breaking them free or before hitting with a torque wrench. ONLY if confident No Risk of cross threading, etc.. damage. Huge time/wrist saver with low risk of error.
I first caught the bug when I was ~10yo and turned 3 trashed YZ125s into 1 killer Zinger.
My Youngest was ~8 and by 10 the only help she needed reringing her 125, was a ride to the shop, where the parts she ordered were waiting to pick up.. ))
My other 2, like their mom, can do a full rebuild, but don't LUV it like we do..((


Im Excited for you! Your 1st rebuild.. You ALWAYS remember your 1st.. How good it feels to guess a gap set perfectly 1st try.. you have to recheck as you don't believe you hit it right off.. To when you wanted to pour gasoline on the whole thing and watch it burn, because for the 2nd time a piston pin retainer clip didn't fully seat and flew across the room or your forehead.. Or you remember missing a spot with the liquid gasket, again... AND its under the cover you just finished torqueing down.. So facing 1hr of recleaning the surfaces and redoing what you just spent 1/2hr doing.. Getting ready to put head on and see one ring is upside down. Didn't bolt down the cam bearing caps before flipping the engine to install the tranny...
All Stupid mistakes that really **** you off.. But the solace in that they are common stupid mistakes especially for people in a rush.
That's why I like to set my piece of plywood on floor in middle of living room, stretch one of those nasty hard as cardboard cheap white hotel type sheets (BUT TOTALY LINT FREE) over it, sit on the floor and go to work. can watch TV or have 'Family Time' while doing it. Then when done for the day take another sheet and lay it across the top covering everything up.
Many times the wife gave me the ole stink-eye seeing me dragging a sheet of plywood into the house some evening. Until the kids started getting old enough that it would become 'Family project Arts and Crafts Time' and we all would be sitting around it working, like some families sit around a table doing a jigsaw puzzle together. We'd spend the evening tearing down and rebuilding a bike engine.


Sorry.. I start to ramble when Im excited.. Right now Im excited for you. I'd love to be a fly on the wall. I hope you catch the bug..
~3hrs after you turn the key for the 1st time after installing YOUR Engine..
You will defiantly know by the number of bugs stuck to your teeth, bc you just cant stop smiling.. ))

 

Omg you got me excited too hahah!!
So you don't think I have to bore the cylinder block and get oversize pistons? just ball-hone? get new seats cut? because I was just looking for parts and including oversize pistons, rings, pins, new valves, misc bearings and gaskets it came out to just about $1000 just for parts not including the machining, thats just about the limit for my budget right now being a poor college student. I mean I could do a grand but I'd have to live on cup ramen for the next 6 months or at least until next summer. But if I didn't have to bore and get oversize I could definitely afford it -hopeful- Basically it's not the labor in the way, the work excites me but it's the cost

The reason my original engine died was mainly loss of compression from bad rings (apparently it was about to take a crap anyway when I bought it and I killed it by putting fresh spark plugs in). When i took the engine to the shop they said I had burnt valves as well and had to replace all of them and also recommended oversize bore/piston rings/set. I haven't measured the cylinders myself yet though
I don't know about the condition of the bottom end for the junkyard engine yet, I was planning on doing a leakdown test this wknd. I could also pull the head to check the cylinders.

Basically what I'm asking is if you think I could build a good running engine from those two plus new wear parts like rings/bearings/gaskets.


Btw man your family sounds crazy and awesome. Adopt me? LOL

 

doing a total rebuild isnt all the expensive.
what gets pricey is when you get new pistons, rods, and bore it out.
last year i picked up two parts engines for my track bike, there was enough good parts between the two to make one good motor.
With parts i already had, i had 11 pistons and 8 rods to choose from, weighed them and matched the piston/rod weight as best as i could. replaced all the crank/rod bearings. cleaned the head up. sent out the crank to get it lightened and balanced. and slapped a thin head gasket on it.
all in all, aside from the cost of the engines, im in it for around $600, and half of that was the crank. Wont have it completely ready till next year but it should be pretty stout of the track after i get it tuned properly.
Long story short, you can go crazy with new this and that and end up with a $2000 engine in a bike worth $3000 on a good day. or you can spend a fraction of that and still have a great performing engine. And seeing as it'll be your first build, and being on a student budget, it might be better to keep it fairly basic.
oh, and i wouldnt worry about porting/polishing the head. you really wont see any gains from that unless you upgrade your cams as well (add another $800 to cost)

 

Yeah I want to keep it basic as well, since I have no experience and little budget, I just need it to run ok for two years until I can graduate and earn moneys. I'm really hoping I don't need a bore/new pistons etc to get a running engine. Maybe I could get away with just cleaning and reusing valves as well despite being burnt since it at least ran before, maybe I could clean some of the less rusted ones from the other engine and use the best of those?

 

might get lucky with the valves, but if you have to bore it out you're budget will go out the window. these engines dont have sleeves, so if it gets bored it will need re-coated. Had more than one shop quote me around $500 to bore and recoat cylinders.

 

Coatings a bitch. My top case cost me around $750.00. And then you have to factor in new pistons, rings, etc. However, I've seen people sleeve aluminum casings before - I even thought about doing it so I could go up another mm on bore... But decided against it.

Sunny- you live in the best area of the country to do a cheap rebuild. You probably have some shops close that will do a quick head and valve job on the cheap. Your bottom end might be okay for all we know.... do a compression check first on both engines. I'd pick the one with the highest as my "keeper"

I'd rob one of the trannies from the engine you won't reuse and sell it on fleabay. Stunters will pick that up quick for a good amount of money. Part out what you can and fund a cheap rebuild.

 

Im saying No to the oversized pistons and boreing.. Ball-honeing cleans up the cylinders. Then recondition 4 of the 8 pistons you have with new rings.
Your rebuild will be in the <$500 range. Depending on tools already have or access to.
Use the 2nd block and Head for a monster build at your leisure.
You should be able to do a Factory rebuild w/o a trip to the machine shop. Just a ball hone and a desktop 1'' belt sander(1400grit paper), and a drill.

 

If I just do a ball-hone do I need recoating as well? (I tried to google but couldn't find a clear answer...)

Compression on my original was 70/30/65/65 (that was shortly before it died)
I haven't done one on my second motor yet. Is there a way to do a compression test without connecting everything up to the bike? Could I just hook up the battery to the starter motor?

I'm gonna call around for some quotes soon, compiled a list of machining shops already.
And yeah I will definitely sell some leftover parts after all this is done n over... I'd love to keep it and do a "monster build" like JohnnyRocket said but I don't see myself with the money required for at least the next 2 yrs, need to cover some of my costs if I end up having things machined

 

JohnnyRocket-
Today I did a real fast rough sample measure of my original piston/cylinders best as I could (ordered micrometers and will do a complete more accurate measure hopefully soon)

Piston diameter: 66.98mm (service limit 66.9mm)
Cylinder diameters: took measures in different spots they all range from 66.8mm~67.0mm (service limit 67.10mm)

Is that good enough to skip on the bore and go with just a ball honing like you suggested? I don't know how fast things wear

(Haven't taken apart the second engine yet, will do that after leakdown/compression tests if possible)

Also there is some gunk stuff around the cylinder tops (original engine) will that clean with a manual cleaning and a ball hone?