Water Injection
#1
08-16-2012, 11:36 AM
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Water Injection
You guys are going to think I'm nuts but while I was researching the water decarbonozation I learned alot about water Injection. And I'm thinking of Modding it in once everything is all set on my bike. 
I was discussing it with my father last weekend and he was telling me it was used primarily in the military for HP gains but was stopped only because they went over to turbines. I would think the first thing I would need to find out is the correct jet to use for acceptable gains without over compressing the chamber.
My idea for the moment is to use a switched windshield wiper motor/resevior to jets drilled into the airfilter boots (easily replaced/repaired).
Has anyone done this? I found this in a google search and am reading it now.
Do It Yourself Water Alcohol Methanol Injection
Any thoughts?
I was discussing it with my father last weekend and he was telling me it was used primarily in the military for HP gains but was stopped only because they went over to turbines. I would think the first thing I would need to find out is the correct jet to use for acceptable gains without over compressing the chamber.
My idea for the moment is to use a switched windshield wiper motor/resevior to jets drilled into the airfilter boots (easily replaced/repaired).
Has anyone done this? I found this in a google search and am reading it now.
Do It Yourself Water Alcohol Methanol Injection
Any thoughts?
#2
08-16-2012, 12:15 PM
My main concern would be the risk of extreme chamber pressures. If the bike's motor already has a high compression ratio and throw in cast alloy instead of forged steel pistons. Would you be running some sort of detonation and piston/valve damage risk? Especially in a dual fire spark system
Also, if chamber temps increase faster than the motors ability to dissipate that heat (and we all know how hot these bike's can run) you can end up with detonation and damage
I seems as well this mod is suited more for boosted and injected (either mechanical of EFI) motors that can control things like ignition timing and air/fuel metering in real time
Not trying to discourage, just playing devil's advocate
A modification that I've been musing about is how to run ram-air ducting from the nose fairing to the air-box
Also, if chamber temps increase faster than the motors ability to dissipate that heat (and we all know how hot these bike's can run) you can end up with detonation and damage
I seems as well this mod is suited more for boosted and injected (either mechanical of EFI) motors that can control things like ignition timing and air/fuel metering in real time
Not trying to discourage, just playing devil's advocate
A modification that I've been musing about is how to run ram-air ducting from the nose fairing to the air-box
Last edited by wooferdog; 08-16-2012 at 12:45 PM.
#3
08-16-2012, 12:16 PM
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My main concern would be the risk of extreme chamber pressures.If the bike's motor already has a high compression ratio and throw in cast alloy instead of forged steel pistons. Would you be running some sort of detonation and piston damage risk? Especially in a dual fire spark system
I know that Ford SVT Mustangs have limitations on how much boost you can add because of the hypereutectic alloy pistons and how much pressure they can handle before cracking
I know that Ford SVT Mustangs have limitations on how much boost you can add because of the hypereutectic alloy pistons and how much pressure they can handle before cracking
#5
08-16-2012, 12:55 PM
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I'm going to have to check my compression again after my Italian tuneup. IIRC it was 90/100/120/90 when I first started working on it so I have alot of room to work with.
Anyone know the upper limit to our stock chambers?
Anyone know the upper limit to our stock chambers?
#6
08-16-2012, 08:44 PM
.02 here. I remember seeing a magazine, Popular Mechanics maybe, where someone was trying to work this out on a car back in the late 70's or early 80's. They fitted a spray nozzle on the air cleaner box that sprayed into the downdraft two barrel carb. I think it was triggered by a manifold pressure switch so it would only pump when the engine was at power, under load and higher RPM. There was never a follow up story.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
#7
08-16-2012, 09:41 PM
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.02 here. I remember seeing a magazine, Popular Mechanics maybe, where someone was trying to work this out on a car back in the late 70's or early 80's. They fitted a spray nozzle on the air cleaner box that sprayed into the downdraft two barrel carb. I think it was triggered by a manifold pressure switch so it would only pump when the engine was at power, under load and higher RPM. There was never a follow up story.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
Very good idea! Thx.
I can run a compression tester and slowly increase nozzle size to find the compresion I wish to run at. That's kind of hack but I have no idea what the equations would be. Any mathematicians here?
#9
08-17-2012, 12:28 AM
#10
08-17-2012, 07:04 AM
Crazy CBR Salvage Guy. RIP
For work today, I had to do a search on CBR to kpa.
Yes, CBR is an actual measurement, virtual pint on offer for the first engineer that can confirm that.
