Go Back   CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners > Past CBR Models > CBR 1000F "Hurricane"
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:36 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bottom of a Bottle in RI US
Posts: 391
Default Water Injection

You guys are going to think I'm nuts but while I was researching the water decarbonozation I learned alot about water Injection. And I'm thinking of Modding it in once everything is all set on my bike.

I was discussing it with my father last weekend and he was telling me it was used primarily in the military for HP gains but was stopped only because they went over to turbines. I would think the first thing I would need to find out is the correct jet to use for acceptable gains without over compressing the chamber.

My idea for the moment is to use a switched windshield wiper motor/resevior to jets drilled into the airfilter boots (easily replaced/repaired).

Has anyone done this? I found this in a google search and am reading it now.
Do It Yourself Water Alcohol Methanol Injection

Any thoughts?
This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on CBRForum!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:15 PM
wooferdog's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 1,351
David Cummings
Default

My main concern would be the risk of extreme chamber pressures. If the bike's motor already has a high compression ratio and throw in cast alloy instead of forged steel pistons. Would you be running some sort of detonation and piston/valve damage risk? Especially in a dual fire spark system

Also, if chamber temps increase faster than the motors ability to dissipate that heat (and we all know how hot these bike's can run) you can end up with detonation and damage

I seems as well this mod is suited more for boosted and injected (either mechanical of EFI) motors that can control things like ignition timing and air/fuel metering in real time

Not trying to discourage, just playing devil's advocate

A modification that I've been musing about is how to run ram-air ducting from the nose fairing to the air-box
__________________
I never gamble when I cheat at cards

Last edited by wooferdog; 08-16-2012 at 12:45 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:16 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bottom of a Bottle in RI US
Posts: 391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooferdog View Post
My main concern would be the risk of extreme chamber pressures.If the bike's motor already has a high compression ratio and throw in cast alloy instead of forged steel pistons. Would you be running some sort of detonation and piston damage risk? Especially in a dual fire spark system

I know that Ford SVT Mustangs have limitations on how much boost you can add because of the hypereutectic alloy pistons and how much pressure they can handle before cracking
I concurr, hence my comment " I would think the first thing I would need to find out is the correct jet to use for acceptable gains without over compressing the chamber".
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:51 PM
wooferdog's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 1,351
David Cummings
Default

Sorry I heavily edited my original comment
__________________
I never gamble when I cheat at cards
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:55 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bottom of a Bottle in RI US
Posts: 391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooferdog View Post
Sorry I heavily edited my original comment
I'm going to have to check my compression again after my Italian tuneup. IIRC it was 90/100/120/90 when I first started working on it so I have alot of room to work with.

Anyone know the upper limit to our stock chambers?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-16-2012, 08:44 PM
cb2cbr's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 762
Default

.02 here. I remember seeing a magazine, Popular Mechanics maybe, where someone was trying to work this out on a car back in the late 70's or early 80's. They fitted a spray nozzle on the air cleaner box that sprayed into the downdraft two barrel carb. I think it was triggered by a manifold pressure switch so it would only pump when the engine was at power, under load and higher RPM. There was never a follow up story.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
__________________
cb2cbr = 1979 CB750F One Owner + 1993 CBR 900RR + 1994 CBR 1000F

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:41 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bottom of a Bottle in RI US
Posts: 391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2cbr View Post
.02 here. I remember seeing a magazine, Popular Mechanics maybe, where someone was trying to work this out on a car back in the late 70's or early 80's. They fitted a spray nozzle on the air cleaner box that sprayed into the downdraft two barrel carb. I think it was triggered by a manifold pressure switch so it would only pump when the engine was at power, under load and higher RPM. There was never a follow up story.
Water/alky injected aircraft engines worked well for their time but the way those engines are used is different. The injection was used at the highest power settings, take-off-first stage of climb, where the throttle is set, not open/close/open like driving a road course. The pilot/flight engineer could very the prop pitch(engine loading) and manifold pressure and fuel mixture. Manifold pressure, exhaust gas temp, EGT,and CHT, cylinder head temp were watched. These engines were typically low compression ratio but were heavily boosted by superchargers.
I don't that you can find the upper limits of cylinder pressure of our engines unless you do some expensive research with trial and error. You can make some educated guesses by comparing what is used on some turbo charged bikes perhaps. Keep in mind that the aircraft engine applications were mostly big warbirds/transports and the engines didn't live that long. Cylinder replacement was very common on those big multi-row radials. Uncle sam had lots of parts and mechanics too. You are smart to go slow and calculate the pressure.
-
Very good idea! Thx. I can run a compression tester and slowly increase nozzle size to find the compresion I wish to run at. That's kind of hack but I have no idea what the equations would be. Any mathematicians here?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:44 PM
Bordo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Newcastle. NSW. Australia
Posts: 1,014
Geoff Barnes
Send a message via Skype™ to Bordo
Default

Mathematician ????? I don't even know what your talking about here Hueristic......LMAO.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-17-2012, 12:28 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Redcoat, & Maxwell's Silver Hammer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mud hut, Zululand
Posts: 11,364
Default

it was 90/100/120/90
Seems a bit low for compression ratios ?
Aren't they supposed to be around 150/155 ?
__________________
<img src=http://www.home-business-host.com/images/posters/HCBannerner.jpg border=0 alt= />

We are The Gabriel Unit... Wielders of the fiery sword of destruction.
IN MEMORY OF MY FRIEND TIM - RIP 9 Oct 2009 GONE, NEVER FORGOTTEN
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-17-2012, 07:04 AM
kiwi TK's Avatar
Crazy CBR Salvage Guy & IKN
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Otago, NZ
Posts: 2,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordo View Post
Mathematician ????? I don't even know what your talking about here Hueristic......LMAO.
With you on that one Bordo.

For work today, I had to do a search on CBR to kpa.

Yes, CBR is an actual measurement, virtual pint on offer for the first engineer that can confirm that.
__________________

Some people are born stoic, motorcyclists have stoicism thrust upon them.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 07:04 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
1000f, air, cbr, cbr1000f, diy, exhaust, fuel, honda, injection, mixture, perfect, ratio, repair, turbo, water


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
Our Sponsors

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 PM.


Internet Brands, Inc.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for CBRforum.com content, comments, or advertising. CBRforum.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse CBRforum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.