hi everyone, im new here. Having just gotten my permit last summer im also new at riding bikes all together. I am very interested in F4i's infact i am planning on getting one after i finish college. I haven't had the time to take the learning course yet, although i definatly am before i make any purchase...
The only practice ive had has been a few amount of hours on my best friend's 02 GSXR 600. I loved everything about the bike, especially the seat height which is also why i want an f4i (both 31 inches.) But i like the fact that the F4i is built more for the rider rather than the all out racer. I have only practiced in parking lots and only went up to maybe 3rd or 4th gear. I am 21 years old and have heard all the horror stories, and warnings, but i am still very interested in riding as both a way to commute and as a hobby. I feel that i can honestly say that i am not going to abuse the power or get overly comfortable to quickly, so i think that it should be ok to start with a bike like the F4i. I also have no desire to ever even ride anything more than a 600cc.

*** My question here is this... I know many of you guys have experience on other bikes as well. Being that my only and small amount of experience has been on a 02 gsxr, how would you guys compare the two bikes. I dont know anywhere near the limits of either bike in terms of handling ability or speed, or even quality/reliability. I still haven't learned how to lean around turns yet. How do you compare the two bikes.

I still haven't learned how to lean around turns yet. How do you compare the two bikes.

Push on the side you want to to turn to. This only works as you go faster, maybe 12 to 15 mph, and accelerate slightly during the turn, don't slow down or you may fall over. Going slower, like 8 mph, you turn it like a bicycle.

Try to take the MSF course, they have small bikes that are very easy to ride and learn on. Since you already have survived some time on a 600cc bike without incedent, you will really enjoy the class and get more out of it than you think.

By the way, be VERY careful with the rear brake on any sportbike, if you lock up the rear, very bad things can happen.

Good luck.

Yes i definatly noticed what u mean about the rear brake. It is much easier to baby the front brake since it is just a squeeze of the hand. But the rear brake seems very ambiguous, like all or nothing. I am going to practice more braking in the rear at different sensitivity levels i need to get in tune with it a little more. I am going to take the MSF course as soon as i can and am looking forward to learning from them.

One of the things that i am also a bit wary of is downshifting at higher speeds. I am afraid that if Im going at a higher gear like fifth, and shift down to about third or second to slow up will the bike jerk me off my seat? or is it not that with that much force??

thanks again

f4i is probably more suited for you...but either one will bite you hard.

The reason why you need to be VERY careful with the rear brake is that if the rear wheel skids and gets out of line with the front AND you release the rear brake while it is out of what, there is a chance you will HIGH side. That means the bike will proceed to throw you over the front of it and then try and kill you.

As the bikes rear gains traction, if it ain't pointing straight, it will go different than the front, that is how bad things like a high side happen.

My take on downshifting is different than some of the more experienced people on this forum, I use the brakes to slow me down, not the compression of the engine (unless I keep it in the same gear). I do all my braking while in a straight line and I choose the gear I am gonna use while I am still pointing straight. You will get used to what gear you will use when you get more experience. But do not downshift several gears and just dump the clutch, you will be asking for the rear tire to lose traction as the weight shifts forward. If by chance you are also using rear brake, you may have a rear wheel locking up and bad things can happen. I blip the throttle a little to match revs when I downshift a few gears, it creates less shock and clutch wear.

If you do lock up your rear wheel, I believe you should keep it locked until you have stopped, maybe one of the other members can comment on this.

Be very careful out on public roads, especially busy ones.

good luck and keep us posted.

i had an 01' gixxer 600. now i have an 06' F4i. the bikes are very similiar in that they inspire confidence. the gsxr's riding position is a little more cramped. also the gixxer engine was a little buzzier but the fuel injection was better sorted imo. good luck. after owning both i'd get the F4i no question;)

I prefer the F4i over the gixxer. the gixxer gas tank is too high to me, and theres not enough wind protection for the rider either IMO, the F4i has a higher windscreen that covers the rider's face better when tucked down under it.

I like absolutely NOTHING about the gixxer, while the F4i, I love everything about.

Wow, you guys are solidifying my expectations about this bike... I knew the second i browsed on the honda website and saw the F4i, i knew it was the perfect bike for what im looking for. Im glad alot of you are pleased with it.

good write-up, compare for yourself;)
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/01600/

I think that along with great handling and comfort (compared to all out race bikes) the F4i i s the best deal for your money. Honda is the most reliable bike out there and lasts longer than you think it will. You will see many people on honda's with 15-20k miles and more. I have an 04 that I bought brand new and now has 16.5k miles and thats with a hard winter no riding and being in the shop for 1.5 months. I would swear by my F4i any day banana seat or not.

first:

MSF, MSF, MSF + gear

second:

consider something with less balls than either the gix6 or the f4i. think about a used ninja 250/500, GS500, F2, F3, mid 90's fzr600, used sv650. The reasons for this are: the f4i's got a lot of gitup n' go for a new rider, even if it's not an "all-out-sportbike" it can and will put you on your ass if you're not careful. A cheap older bike hurts the wallet less when you drop it. some people may say that they learned on an F4i, and that's it's a "good" starter bike, and any bike is a good starter bike if you have the right attitude, but this line of reasoning is a little deluded imo. the faster the bike, the steeper the learning curve, which is already steep to begin with. also, in spite of your best intentions, sometimes you do things you do not intend--a supersport front brake has so much braking power that grabbing a fistful of brake just might endo you right into the asphalt. sloppy throttle control w/ a high hp sportbike just might wash you out mid-corner. some things to consider...

third:

strictly comparing the F4i to the gixxer, i think the F4i is a much better bike. Aesthetics aside (i hate the bumblebee gixxer body), the f4i has a better midrange, better throttle response, and more comfortable ergonomics. Riding my friend's 02 gixxer around is actually a bit underwhelming compared to my f4i--everything is a little less immediate/responsive (aside from the brakes, which are good on the gix).

Charlos, aside from the not so aggressive looks and not being capable of the gazillion mph compared to newer track oriented sportbikes, why is the F4i not considered an 'all out sportbike'. Was it not Honda's premiere 600 class racing bike '2001-2003' before the RR came out? IMHO, I just think it should get more respect as a 'real' 600 class sportbike.

Get the GSXR.

Since you are a n00b rider and already looking at championship level sportbikes, WHEN you wreck the GSXR you won't cause the rest of our insurance rates to go up.


Seriously. A Modern 600 Sportbike is NOT, NOT, NOT a starter bike. Get a EX250 or EX500, ride it for a year or two, gain some skill and ride for life. Get a racebike as your first and you may not have a very long riding future.

ORIGINAL: charlos

first:

MSF, MSF, MSF + gear

second:

consider something with less balls than either the gix6 or the f4i. think about a used ninja 250/500, GS500, F2, F3, mid 90's fzr600, used sv650. The reasons for this are: the f4i's got a lot of gitup n' go for a new rider, even if it's not an "all-out-sportbike" it can and will put you on your ass if you're not careful. A cheap older bike hurts the wallet less when you drop it. some people may say that they learned on an F4i, and that's it's a "good" starter bike, and any bike is a good starter bike if you have the right attitude, but this line of reasoning is a little deluded imo. the faster the bike, the steeper the learning curve, which is already steep to begin with. also, in spite of your best intentions, sometimes you do things you do not intend--a supersport front brake has so much braking power that grabbing a fistful of brake just might endo you right into the asphalt. sloppy throttle control w/ a high hp sportbike just might wash you out mid-corner. some things to consider...

third:

strictly comparing the F4i to the gixxer, i think the F4i is a much better bike. Aesthetics aside (i hate the bumblebee gixxer body), the f4i has a better midrange, better throttle response, and more comfortable ergonomics. Riding my friend's 02 gixxer around is actually a bit underwhelming compared to my f4i--everything is a little less immediate/responsive (aside from the brakes, which are good on the gix).


i definatly hear what you are saying Charlos about getting a less powerful bike and if i had the opportunity to ride right now, but the truth is that i am not getting any bike at all until i am done paying for college. I feel that by the time that I can actually afford this bike or any bike, i might have had enough parkinglot/small road practice on my friend's bike and MSF course, by that time i purchase an f4i i may be ready to handle it's abilities on an ownership basis. I would take a 250r or smaller cc anyday, just can't afford one at the moment.

f4i is no longer considered an all out sportbike cause it's position as an all out sportbike has been replaced by the RR...

ORIGINAL: 98f3pilot

Charlos, aside from the not so aggressive looks and not being capable of the gazillion mph compared to newer track oriented sportbikes, why is the F4i not considered an 'all out sportbike'. Was it not Honda's premiere 600 class racing bike '2001-2003' before the RR came out? IMHO, I just think it should get more respect as a 'real' 600 class sportbike.


it's not that it's not an all out sportbike. it IS.

i respect it plenty. but as far as the "market" goes, it's not as "exxxtreme" as an R6 or a gix6, and personally i think it's a good thing.

"i might have had enough parkinglot/small road practice on my friend's bike and MSF course, by that time i purchase an f4i i may be ready to handle it's abilities on an ownership basis."

Come on now, you don't really believe that. The F4i's power doesn't even kick in until 6000RPM and you'll never see that in parking lot.


If you have to have a sport bike as your first bike, I would suggest getting an older model, something late 90's. I suggest this, not so much for the performance aspect, but for that fact that you WILL drop your bike. And it will probably happen within the first few months you own it. And once it is dropped you aren't going to want to invest the $500 per fairing to get it back in new condition.

Something to keep in mind: Bikes hold their value pretty well. If you pick up a older bike, you can turn around and sell it later for close to what you paid. I bought my first bike (Suckzuki Bandit600) for $3200, dropped it on both sides and put 8000 miles on it, and sold it for $3000 a year later.

And wait, theres more... if you pick up an older bike, you wont need as much cash. You can buy the bike sooner. Then you can park in the motorcycle parking at school.

And wait, theres still more... An older bike will be soooooo much cheaper when it comes to insurance. I bet you haven't looked at what its is going to cost for full coverage. If you are in your low 20's, it will probably be a couple grand a year. Do a search in this forum on insurance, you'll see. With the older bike, you will probably only need/want the min.

+1 to everything lifties posted

I started riding with an 03 f4i. I beleive that it was a bit too powerfull (as i have lowsided twice).

If i could go back and do it again...I'd still get the f4i.

I own both bikes and the gixxer is night and day better then the f4i......

Granted I have a K6 GSXR-600 and I gave my 05 f4i to my fiance..........When I was first shopping after taking the MSF course I was interested in the 600cc class, but never ever riding a bike let alone a crotch rocket, i found the ergo's of the 2005 competition at the time to uncomfortable. So the f4i for me was very very comfy. Good riding position, quick, looks good etc. Plenty of power for my 6'1 195lb ass. I was instantly comfortable with the bike and for 7 months it was my baby.

My finace had been riding for years and got tired of sitting on the back. But she hadnt been on her own bike for years and wanted one. So we decided that I would give her the f4i due to the seat height, power, and she flat out loved it. So I was looking again. Im a blue and white guy and when I saw the new K6 I was in love. Took one home fresh outta the crate and instantly feel in love. NIGHT AND DAY difference between the two. More power, better brakes, better suspension, more little extras here and there. But the big thing was the ERGO's felt just as comfy as my f4i. My gixxer has everything I wanted as an upgrade from my f4i without going for a liter bike.

Either one in my opinions are very good bikes. I still steal the dropped f4i out every now and again although I cant lean that far....fiance is 5'2 and the bike is dropped 3".
But is still is a blast to drive around. You cant go wrong with honda quality. But new suzu's are just as nice IMO. You cant go wrong with either but if it were me......I would buy the Gixxer every time.

Good post Niscur23 !

Sorry niscur23, but are you sure that Ergos are the same ?

Is not the Suzuki riding position so much radical or it seems to me ?

Cheers

Charlos, I know you didn't say you didn't respect it. How about rephrasing the '01-03' f4i as Honda's 'older' all out 600 cc sportsbike before the 600cc RR came out, :)

if you get a 600 sportbike without taking the msf i'm gonna cry :(

You would thinnk that it would be, but the clip-ons on the new gixxer fell much higher then the current 2006 600cc class. And I feel like I sit in the bike like my f4i and not on top like the R6 RR 675. I judge comfort by the pressure put on my wrists and while the K6 is a little more forward leaning, it is pretty darn close to the f4. Combine a good seat with adjustable rear sets and the new gsxr is just as good.

If you ride a 600 hard (ie take it over 6 or 7 grand) then it becomes a monster... yesterday I was out having some fun on my pokey slow old F4 and lifted about 4-5 small power wheelies coming out of turns... these were power wheelies. She came up because I was giving her full throttle out of the turn.

The point is - a new rider could never have controlled that bike in that situation. The next turn comes so fast when you're on the throttle that you had better be ready for it. You had better know what the bike will do when you come off the throttle, and you had better know how much brake you can use and how late you can use it.

Ever new rider says - I won't push it. Every new rider doesn't for the first week. Then they start to get cocky, they KNOW what they're doing. Then many new riders come out of a corner, or down a straight - wack the throttle (the easy part) and get scared. They're flying down the road and a turns coming. They panic. They don't look into the turn. They either look straight and fly into the ditch, or grab a mit full of front brake a lowside into the ditch.

A 600 is not a beginner friendly bike. A beginner can ride one. Some beginners get lucky, although more beginners will get lucky on a more appropriate beginner bike. This kind of horsepower IS NOT FOR A BEGINNER!

So take the MSF - learn how to properly handle a bike, learn how to 'lean' (countersteer), learn how to brake and learn how to do emergancy manoveurs... if you don't learn in a course you may have to learn on the street and it just isn't something people can do perfectly the first time.

Get gear. Wearing gear will make the accident hurt less - PERIOD. I've walked away from some spectacular crashes.. infact JR brought my old gear and they're on display at a dealer somewhere in Canada.

Get a beginner friendly bike. Don't dismiss the 250/500's as slow bikes - they're faster than any car you'd have used when you got your licence and they'll safely let you into the MC world. You still have to respect them, however, you can learn to push them harder after a few thousand km... going fast isn't the be all and end all. Even if it were, the trick to going fast is maintaining corner speed - something a 600 will never teach you in real life. I've ridden with alot of straight away kings - corner like a granny and speed down the straights - you'll never be fast that way. Learn to corner with speed on a smaller bike.

Woot.

Woot,
I liked what you had to say. I got a 600 as my first bike, and have done pretty well. I am getting better in the corners, but they are definitely the weakest part of my riding to date. I think I get a little overwhelmed/excited by the power, and have less urge to practice the fundamentals...ultimately dangerous. Gotta walk before you run.

You guys are right and i respect ur experience and advice. What is a good 250-500cc that is made by Honda in past years? The reason i want a Honda is because i want something that is reliable and i know from experience with cars that Honda's reputation is the best. I am looking for something fully faired of mostly faired.

ORIGINAL: woot

A 600 is not a beginner friendly bike. A beginner can ride one. Some beginners get lucky, although more beginners will get lucky on a more appropriate beginner bike. This kind of horsepower IS NOT FOR A BEGINNER!

Woot.


Are you saying that I'm just lucky that I'm alive and haven't crashed yet?

Crashing Statistics (http://www.cbrforum.com/m_127777/tm.htm)

With those odds at 50% I think I'll stick with going brand new 600 since my friend has crashed up his gsxr 600 several times enough for the both of us and even totalled out his bike and rebuilt it. I say get what you want. =) Heck go for the brand new bike because it's new and you have a warranty. If you want used I have an '06 F4i Blue/Black with 5k miles on it I'll sell you. I want an '07 600rr!!!!!! They finally have it in blue. =)

Kawi makes a rock solid 250 - I've got friends who've logged 100,000 miles on ONE bike... if you want I can refer you to his bike report, but be warned it spans 8 seperate threads.

The ex500 I have less experience with... but I don't doubt it's as reliable.

The gs500e/f I don't really know.

The thing with the ex250 - you can buy one for less than 3500 new, and a used one for 1500. You can ride it for 2 years, and sell it again for damn near what you paid for it. If you do total it, it's much less of a hit - you lost ~2000 instead of 8000. Gas is dirt cheap, insurance is cheap and it's alot of fun. Heck, I've got friends in the California 250 production class - they have a ball - cheapest track bike you'll ever get.

If you do decide to keep it - you might get 50-100,000 miles out of it... those will be the cheapest miles you ever logged. At any point you can sell it and get most of your money back... and at that time you'll have saved up enough extra to flat out by your shiny new 600.

And piss on the next person who say it's a girls bike... it might not make 100hp, but it's fun and it's on two wheels. After a year on that you'll have ALOT of road experience that will transfer to the 600... infact many people beleive that if you start small you'll be a better rider than one who started large... how many of your favorite racers started on the 600rr?

Can't beat that deal... not even Honda could.
Woot.

I just upgradded from a 2004 silver Ninja 500 to a 2006 yellow f4i and i agree with what everyone is saying.
It is a very big differance between the two bikes. The f4i has almost twice the horsepower 54 hp for the Ninja 500
and 100 hp for the f4i + or - depending on who you talk to. So good luck with what ever choice you make.:)

By the way my Ninja 500 is up for sale.:)

So i just moved from a 2002 buell blast with i think 30hp to a 2002 F4i...

will i notice any gains from moving up like this???




lol...

[DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT ADVOCATING ROAD RACING, OR RIDING IN AN UNSAFE MANNER ON THE STREET. IF YOU
REALLY WANT TO GO FAST, GO TO THE TRACK - THEY'LL TEACH YOU HOW, AND THERE ARE NO SPEEDLIMITS]

If you've ridden the blast and learned the fundamentals then you'll be in a good position to ride the F4i...

One more comment - don't just think about how fast a bike is in terms of horsepower and speed, consider how much of the bike you're able to use.

Once you were comfortable on the buell were you maintaining more corner speed? Were you on the throttle on corner exits? Were you able to break solidly before entering a turn? Did you manage to use your body weight to stabilize and hold a line?

I'm asking how much of the bike you were actually using.

I've seen alot of people that buy a bike and don't actually learn anything. They slow down ages before a turn. Wobble around the turn correcting the line all the way through, typically turning in early, getting too tight, widdening the line and running out wide, only to have to correct again. Then when the road was straight they'd grab a mitt full of throttle and repeat. This type of ridding has no skill, and no room for error - and as I was suggesting earlier isn't using much of the bike. Worse still, they feel like they're going fast and feel like they're doing it right. They don't learn anything as they ride about like this.

If you FORGET about going fast in terms of mph, and focus on being smooth and learning to go quickly without the horsepower, then you will be much much better off when you actually get some horsepower.


So to answer your question - you'll certainly notice the extra horsepower, extra stability, firmer brakes and more positive response... my question to you is, after riding the buell do you feel like you've learned enough to be able to use these features well? IF you have put the miles on and learned a few things - then almost certainly. Give it a few weeks and I'd be certain that you'd be better off than the guy who spent the whole time on the 600.

--

Here's another way to word it. Being smooth pays. On a low hp bike there is no way you're going to be able to 'catch up' after slowing down too much for a turn - you're forced to learn that if you maintain a bit more corner speed then you'll not have to catch up as much and that you'll be a better setup to travel the straight at what ever speed your heart desires. A larger bike won't as obviously punish you for slowing down too much for the straight, as it will very quickly get you back up to the speed you wanted to be going. You'll still loose a few seconds, but you won't notice them as much, and won't feel the need to learn to correct this mistake.

Being smooth means, braking as little as possible, and getting on the throttle as early and gently as possible. Exit throttle position is up to you.

My reply was a joke, of course i'm gonna notice a horsepower gain!

But, in reply to your message, I have taken the MSF basic riding course and let me tell you, it was worth it! I practiced things I wouldn't have normally practiced and I learned the correct way to do things!

One of the basic riding things I found so amazing is the fact that if you look where you want to go, most likely you'll get there. If I focused on other things, I'd have to really wobble/carefully progress my way through corners and such but if i just looked where i wanted to go and kept my head up, i got there and it was cake.

I'm not saying I'm a pro or even a seasoned rider or anything, I'm just saying I took the class, scored 100% on everything and learned a lot.

I know it will help in my riding!

:D

You're just being difficult... that's ok - I'm being a bit of pain too.

I guess what I should have said after all my ranting like a loon - work on being smooth and not being fast, fast is a biproduct of smooth. Alot of people work on being fast and never get the smooth part, as a result they'll never be smooth or fast. Starting small helps people work on being smooth as if you aren't you won't be going anywhere fast.